M1A - USGI vs Reproduction parts

Q

Q-Man

New member
The gas wrench that I bought (from the Fulton Armory) for my fairly new Standard M1A (bought Christmas 2000) didn't fit the gas lock, so I filed away at the aluminum wrench until it would fit. I understand that this means I have a reproduction gas lock on my rifle.

How can I find out what other parts are reproduction and not USGI?

More importantly, is it important to replace the reproduction parts with USGI parts? Are reproduction parts easier to break or not as safe?
 
Q-Man, I believe the Springfield gas lock is a cast part, and they don't use USGI parts. The Fulton Armory wrench fits the FA parts, which are USGI. Check the Fulton Armory FAQ section for more info., or check out www.jouster.com, or read the string below about accurizing a standard grade M1A. Hopes this helps, sorry I couldn't be more specific. Best, LBC
 
Q-Man, I have read the following www.gunandknife.com M1A/M14 forum. One gentleman had to replace the commerical made operating rod because it snapped AFTER shooting 40,000 rounds and rebarreling twice through an M1A he bought used. The consensus is that no one remembers a USGI operating rod breaking from shooting. I think this is a good illustration of commercial vs. USGI M1A/M14 parts.

If you post the markings from your M1A rifle parts I can help you identify what is what. Killeen Machine Tool, TRW, H&R, Winchester, Saco-Lowell and the government Springfield Armory made the USGI M14 parts. My understanding is that TRW made all the M21 sniper rifles. A Saco-Lowell barrel (marked SAK) is regarded as the best of the best GI barrels. Killeen Machine Tool made operating rod spring guides, trigger guards and magazines for sure.

WRA or 66118 or O-M means Winchester
HR-R or HRA means Harrington & Richardson
TRW means TRW
SA means Springfield Armory (both commercial and USGI)
KMT means Killeen Machine Tool

The GI barrels are always stamped with the month and year of manufacture.

If your operating rod has the drawing number folllowed by -2 SA it is a commercial operating rod. If your trigger housing has a -I at the end of the drawing number it is commercial made.

HTH

:)
 
Thanks Different!

Barrel has writing on it on top over the op-rod:

_WINCHESTER_ TRADE MARK (in "stylized" logo writing) 7790180-NOV-62-30R

(Made in November 1962 ?)

Off to the op-rod side at about 45 degrees right near the action, the barrel has some faint writing:

?????LD, IL .308

I think this might be: SPRINGFIELD, IL .308


Op-rod:

7267064-2
SA


I have found no markings on the gas-piston, gas-lock, or any of the other parts in the gas system.

I have found no markings on the flash suppressor (It is a bastardized Klinton suppressor with no bayo. lug)

The front sight says:
NM 062

Is this a national match front sight? If so, why would it be on a Standard grade rifle? (I'm not complaining :) )

The op-rod spring guide has no markings on it

Inside the receiver there is a number written off to the side under the rear sight. It is 13880 with a hand written/carved 19 after it. The serial # on the back of the receiver is 1287XX

The bolt has:
7790186-SA
F00040

The action housing has:
7267030-I



Any info you have is greatly appreciated!
 
Q-Man, here is what I see:

post-ban commercial cast receiver

trigger housing - commercial SA cast

bolt - commercial SA forged

front sight - National match

operating rod - commercial combination of cast and forged per phone conversation with Springfield Armory

barrel - USGI made by Winchester in November, 1962


IF your operating rod spring guide was made by KMT it will have very faint markings on one side on the rear end. There will be a large "K" with small "M" and "T".
 
not to change the subject, but man there has been a lot of m-1a related topics ever since i posted that original "sound off" post. Man i don't know about you but i'm loving it!
 
Thanks again Different!

Any ideas about the flash suppressor? Do they just shave the lug off of USGI parts or do they make new ones?

I gather from your story about the 40,000 round op-rod breaking that reproduction parts may not be quite as good as USGI but I'll likely never see the difference. If I replace any of the parts with USGI will it improve accuracy?

Yes, bullfrog99, I think we all need a group M1A owner's hug.

Is Fred's the best place to get a wood stock? I'm tired of looking at the cheep chipped up synthetic stock the rifle came with.
 
Q-Man, some day, some how, you, Karsten, MIKE 14, Seventh Fleet and myself all need to get together for an M1A shoot and BIG group hug! :)

Springfield Armory has put out M1As flash suppressors that were USGI but the lug was milled off. Now they are making their own flash suppressors without the bayonet lug. Sometimes you can see the casting lines on the commercial made flash suppressors.
I have a loaded M1A with a USGI flash suppressor that has the bayonet lug milled off. You can clearly see the milling machine marks on the bayonet lug. But I am able to console myself with the pre-ban all GI parts M1A next to it in the safe. :D

I agree with your assessment of commercial M1A parts. Not as enduring as GI parts but you most likely won't notice the difference. Springfield Armory has been making forged bolts since the mid-80s so the old story about commercial made bolts being a problem is very old news.

My loaded M1A has a match tuned commercial made trigger group but the other two M1As I have are set up with USGI trigger groups (H&R). IMO, the match commercial trigger is good but the USGI triggers are AWESOME. I also think that if you go with USGI National Match gas cylinder and gas piston you will get smaller groups. One thing that really helps is shimming the gas cylinder, whether USGI or commercial. As mentioned previously, the USGI gas cylinder lock is nice to have because it works with the wrench. If you are on a budget, start with shimming the gas cylinder and put in an all USGI parts trigger group.

Sometimes you can tell if the gas cylinder is USGI. One of my M1As has an "N" etched into the bottom side of it. According to Ted Brown, M14 gunsmith, this indicates USGI.

I have ordered from Fred's of Shotgun News several times. I highly recommend him. If on a budget, get an "As New" synthetic stock and a nylon sling. If you want to dress things up, go for one of his camo stocks. You will be very happy with it.

Also, make sure that the front end of the handguard is not tight in the front band. It should be a little loose. Otherwise, you will get vertical stringing. If it is tight, take the handguard off and shave a little off the front edge until it is a little loose in the front band.

Different
 
Sounds like I'll be buying parts sometime in the near future. Know of a good place to buy (a) book(s) about how to shim up the gas system, etc.
 
You will get three shims from Fulton Armory, .005, .010 and .015. TYPICALLY, an M1A will need to be shimmed .015".

Take the trigger group out of the rifle and remove the stock from the receiver. Remove the handguard. Remove the flash suppressor set screw, remove the castle nut, remove the flash suppressor. Using a gas cylinder lock wrench and combo tool, remove the gas cylinder plug. Remove the gas piston. Remove the gas cylinder lock. Gently pull the gas cylinder off the rifle. Remove the front band.

Start with the .015" thick shim. Put it on the barrel until it stops against the barrel collar. Put the front band back on. Put the gas cylinder back on. Put the gas cylinder lock back on. As you turn the gas cylinder lock clockwise (putting it on) the gas cylinder lock should stop rotating freely at the 5 o'clock position as you face looking into the bore. If the gas cylinder lock goes past 5 o'clock you need a little more shim, try adding the .005" shim. If the gas cylinder lock stops at 2, 3, or 4 o'clock, remove the .015" shim and replace it with the .010" shim. Once you have the gas cylinder shimmed at where the gas cylinder lock stops at 5 o'clock, use the gas cylinder lock wrench to gently turn the gas cylinder lock to 6 o'clock wherein the gas piston and gas cylinder plug may be reinstalled. Reassemble the rest of your rifle then go test at the range.

Easy greasy!
 
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