M1a Scout/Squad Doubles

E

Edward429451

Moderator
My good friend got a heck of a deal on a newish Scout/Squad rifle, for only 800 bucks at a pawn shop. It shoots OK for not being match grade, but lately it occasionally doubles (fires two shots) from a sandbagged position. :eek: Its never done it when I fire the rifle, only when my friend shoots it. Could this somehow be an operator induced malfunction?
I hesitate to think its the rifle, cause its SA, but you never know. Another thing that makes me think it may be operator induced is, it only does it when sandbagged from the bench, never from any other position. Anybody else ever experiance this with other rifles? Thanks in advance.
 
When I first got my M1A, I experienced some doubling. I suspect that it might have been operator error. When I shoot, I follow through (i.e., try to keep the trigger pulled all the way back for a second or two after the shot). If the recoil is heavy and sharp enough, it might be possible that my finger moved forward enough during recoil (without my realizing it) to allow the sear to reset. Then, as a I thought I was following through, I was actually pulling the trigger a second time.

My gunsmith looked at the trigger and felt that the sear engagement was small enough that he was uncomfortable with it. I called up Springfield and sent the trigger group back to them. The fixed it under warranty. The trigger is certainly heavier now than initially, but at least I'm not doubling with it.

Whether the doubling was from equipment malfunction or operator error still isn't clear to me.

M1911
 
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Have your sear looked at. The pressure created by the bags along with how you are holding the weapon can cause it to malfunction. Don't shoot it around fed mall ninja. ATF tried to prosecute that cop in the People's Republic of New Jersey that had an AR-15 that did the same thing as your M1A.

I have never undersood the utility of a compact version of the M1A. If you want short and light, shouldn't you go with a Steyr Scout? Oh, well, it's a quasi-free country.
 
Sear & hammer engagement should be checked. Also check the firing pin to ensure that it moves freely and doesn't stick in the forward position.
 
As the man said

Trigger control, follow through, loose hold.....all will contribute to this anomaly.
If, after he tries all this, then as the other spurts have said.....back to SA...........sear problem.
I have heard folks say they can get ANY m1A to double, by trigger manipulation, and hold techniques...........
Bad juju.
 
I suspected the doubling may have been caused by operator error because my friends Scout Squad has never did it for me, only when he fires it. If it was something with the gun it should have did it for me too...
I also cant see the utility in a shorter barrel version of the rifle, which is why I bought the full size (loaded) match model. My friend bought his cause of the deal he got, and cause he liked mine. My full size M1A has never doubled for him or me. He's kinda new to rifle shooting (this is his first rifle), and I've been explaining follow through and trigger control to him, maybe a few more trips to the range and the problem will disappear? If not, back to SA. Thanks for your input.:)
 
I had this happen to me once when shooting my regular M1A. It was quite a surprise. Unfortunately, a group of local law enforcement was qualifying at the pistol range right next to the rifle range, so I didn't analyze the problem or keep firing, and instead I packed 'em up and headed out before some got too curious. When I got home I took out the trigger assembly and noticed an accumulation of CLP on the trigger parts. I wiped off the extra oil and had the assembly checked out by a former military armorer who told me that he had heard that too much grease or lube can cause doubling where the hammer "slips" and doesn't reset on the trigger sear. The former armorer didn't see any problems with my sear engagement. I have not yet duplicated the doubling on this particular rifle after two + years, but I do keep the trigger parts as dry as possible.
 
Talked to my buddy, and it seems that last time he cleaned it he felt it cycled kinda dry sounding, so he greased it all up (including trigger group) and the next trip to the range is when the doubling began. Told him to clean the trigger group and leave it dry, and to work on his follow through. we'll see what happens next range trip. I'll post the results.
Thanks to all for your input!!
 
Well we've had his scout/squad out twice more now with no more doubleing. It never did do it for me so he probly didnt have it tight to his shoulder. I've been coaching him on follow through
and no more grease on the trigger group, just in case! Thanks!:)
 
I have done that myself with a (gunsmith) friend's M1a. Was shooting off of sandbag rest and it doubled. I knew it was me. What happened was that when I shoot from the bench I try to shoot with body as relaxed as possible. Only pressure I apply is enough to keep gun against shoulder and trigger pressure. Since I was relaxed my body rolled with recoil a bit but I had braced edge of trigger hand against sandbag for balance and fulcrum so trigger hand/finger actually moved away from rifle in first moment of recoil just enough to reset trigger. But since I was still applying trigger pressure [follow thru] when the rifle stopped moving the trigger moved enough to trip the sear again.

My friend thought at first something had broke with his M1a, but I knew what had happened and when he checked it out he could find nothing wrong with the gun. Since he is a gunsmith and the M1a is one of his pet rifles I am sure if there was a problem he would have found it.
 
Regardless of the cause, a hostile, anti-gun type of law enforcement person can make a case against the gun as an automatic weapon merely for the two shots with one operation of the trigger.

Be advised,

Art
 
I'm just going to chime in on the Scout. I have admittedly never fired one, but it seemd like a solid concept with forward mounted tritium optics and accurate with several 20 round mags. A bipod maybe? It's almost like arguing about the 16" barreled ARs. Heck, I don't have one of them, but would prefer one over the 20" barreled ones. I would like the Scout for just the same reason in say an urban tactical role.

I'm sure you can get a great setup like that for under the price of the Steyr version, which is, no doubt, a fine rifle in itself but a little out of my class at this point.

Back on subject, isn't there some way to polish out the internals to smooth out the trigger pull? I mean, wouldn't a felt tipped Dremel and some jewler's rouge improve the trigger? I don't know about the M1A's fine points...
 
Been out shooting em' a couple more times lately, with no more doubling. My full size, loaded (Match bbl., Match trigger) does significantly better than his Scout/Squad version, but its still no slouch. Handloads are seriously more accurate in either rifle than even premium factory ammo.

I've got mine all dialed in at 100 yds. with the iron sights so now I guess its time to buy the expensive mount and scope for it.

I dont think I'd ever fool around with a dremel on it, the trigger is probably better than I am able to appreciate anyway since I am not a champion level or even competitive shooter. I have fun though, and I'm getting better. Every time I take it out and shoot it, I walk away impressed with myself and the rifle, and my handloads.

I cant afford the Steyr/Scout, so I bought the poor man version and gave it to my son, a Remington 700 ADL Synthetic Youth in 308 Win. This is a really cool little rifle, we reccommend it highly (For those on a budget, and those not too!);)
 
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