Steve Smith
New member
Guys, I'm sorry for all the M1A questions, but doggone it, I wanna know! What kind of accuracy are you guys regularly getting? Especially out of the "loaded" models? Please include ammo type.
M1A accuracy and ammo
- Thread starter Steve Smith
- Start date
After a few months of learning and practice, I can sometimes shoot 2" groups at 100 yrds. M1a-NM. Various handloads. Iron sights. Practice and experience and a very clean barrel pay off! For now, I clean after every 5 rnds.
Factory ammo did worse for me (4"), but I need to check again.
Factory ammo did worse for me (4"), but I need to check again.
Steve Smith
New member
That's not too shabby with the iron sights...how about you guys with scopes...how's your accuracy?
Ok, M14NM (Armscorp/H&R M14) with Weaver V-16 4-16x42 and ARMS #18 mount, handloads of 168gr Molly'ed Sierra MatchKings, 41.5g grains or IMR4895, Federal 210 Match primers, Lapua 7.62x51 brass, 3/4 inch 5-shot group at 100 yards. (non-standard gas gun fodder, but it's the Same handload I make for my 700PSS) I would assume the higher grade Springfield Inc's, like the Loaded or Supermatch models, could meet or exceed this performance.
Peter M. Eick
New member
I shoot 20 rnd groups (a mag full) to test accuracy so I do not do as well as the rest. Using the same loads 40.5 grns of imr-4895 and c-34 primers on federal gold medal brass and seirra 168 bthp's.
My super match with a 6.5x20 leo. scope, my 100 yrd groups run about 2 to 2.5 inches for 20 rnds.
My national match with a 4.5x14 leo. scope does a bit better (newer) at about 2 inches for 20 rnds.
My loaded with a 4.5x14 leo. scope does about 4" to 6".
My "normal" m1a has on of the springfield government scopes (I do not remember the power) and it is about the same 4" to 6" for 20 rnds.
Hope this helps.
------------------
P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!
My super match with a 6.5x20 leo. scope, my 100 yrd groups run about 2 to 2.5 inches for 20 rnds.
My national match with a 4.5x14 leo. scope does a bit better (newer) at about 2 inches for 20 rnds.
My loaded with a 4.5x14 leo. scope does about 4" to 6".
My "normal" m1a has on of the springfield government scopes (I do not remember the power) and it is about the same 4" to 6" for 20 rnds.
Hope this helps.
------------------
P229 Sport and 357 SIG, H&K P7PSP and 9MM, Dual Perfection!!
Riverdog, that's not a bad idea! Actually, I did very little work on the camo, other than airbrushing the cheekpiece to match the stock. It's one of the pre-painted camo GI fiberglass stocks from Fred's, called the Ambush pattern. I built the gun for Highpower matches using iron sights, Devcon bedding the action, reinforcing the forend, and competed quite successfully for a couple years. Then I learned that my Colt Competition HBAR was just a bit easier to swing in the matches, especially in the offhand stages. So, I scoped the M14 for tactical matches, and it's been a sweetheart in that role. I never considered finishing the camo to include scope and mount, it got to the point in the Sacramento area that the gun seldom left my safe. The climate was not friendly to gun owners, then there were rumblings, to culminate with California deciding it was an evil assault rifle under SB-23. I could just as easily have hacked off the bayo lug, put on a California-legal muzzle brake, and found some 10-round magazines, etc. After that, I understand many M14/M1A shooters, as well as the FN-FAL, HK91, BM59, and AR-15 folks just plain quit taking them out to the range, to the extent of substituting bolt guns or M1 Garands for the matches. My fix was timely, the Air Force saw fit to reassign me to Florida, which has been a refreshing change in mindset, to say the least. If I can scrounge the time, I think I just may go ahead and airbrush the scope and mount to match the rest of the system...
The cheekpiec is a resin accessory made for the H&K G-3 rifle, but it'll work fine on any straight-comb stock. It's held onto the comb by two sheet metal screws, making it fairly quick to attach and dismount. They come in black, but sand and paint easily. Federal Arms sells them for around $25.00, but of course, they have no website, being catalog sales only. I've considered casting my own out of two-part resin if interest is high enough, it's a neat concept and makes for a clean installation.
This is not much of a test but I got the following results when zeroing my loaded M1A. At 25 meters I got a 5/16" three shot group using the following handload recipe: once fired Remington brass, 150 grain Sierra FMJBT bullets, large rifle CCI primers and 48.0 grains Winchester 748 powder per case. On the same day with the same rifle at the same distance three PMC 147 grain FMJ bullets grouped 7/16".
Does the scope mount ever cause the ejected cases to hit it and then bounce back into the chamber, causing malfunctions or failures to eject on the next round? I'm thinking about scoping my M1A, but here from some that I shouldn't. I'm most concerned with utmost reliability, not super accuracy.
Unkel Gilbey
New member
Has anyone ever tried to work up a load using Sierra's 175gn MatchKing? I ask this because I know that Lake City "Special Ball" ammo used a 173gn Boat tail that was 'Good enough for Govt. work' when I was on the base team. At the 600 yard line (with my team at least!), the Special Ball was preferred over the White Box ammo (168gn).
Seems that the overall favorite for 7.62x51 is the 168gn HPBT, but if you have a Bbl with a decent twist (1:10) then the 175gn bullets might be something that you'd want to look into. The heavier bullet might even have a better ballistic coefficient, resulting in better retention of velocity downrange...
Food for thought anyways.
Good luck, Unkel Gilbey
Seems that the overall favorite for 7.62x51 is the 168gn HPBT, but if you have a Bbl with a decent twist (1:10) then the 175gn bullets might be something that you'd want to look into. The heavier bullet might even have a better ballistic coefficient, resulting in better retention of velocity downrange...
Food for thought anyways.
Good luck, Unkel Gilbey
I was talking to some guys at the last NM shoot and they swear by those Sierra 175's. I just used some Hornady 178 A-max's for 600 yards in the M1A and they worked great. They worked really well in my 700 at the 1000 match over the weekend too. I might invest in a 500 pack of the moly coated 175's. I know the moly coated 168's are awesome in both of my guns.
Unkle, I have quite a few 173 gr FMJ that I got through my club. Been working for years trying to duplicate the Special Ball load but have not quite gotten there.
I do not own an out of the box M1A but I shot a friends Super Match about 12 years ago and did very well in it.
The least matched up M14 semi auto I have will hold 1.4 to 2.3 MOA using Federal Match 168 gr. ammo. 147 gr Ball will depend on where it came from but is usually never over 3 MOA. Good handloads using 168 gr quality projectiles will fall into the 1.2 MOA area and when my eyes are feeling good the groups will be a little tighter.
I do not own an out of the box M1A but I shot a friends Super Match about 12 years ago and did very well in it.
The least matched up M14 semi auto I have will hold 1.4 to 2.3 MOA using Federal Match 168 gr. ammo. 147 gr Ball will depend on where it came from but is usually never over 3 MOA. Good handloads using 168 gr quality projectiles will fall into the 1.2 MOA area and when my eyes are feeling good the groups will be a little tighter.
Unkel Gilbey
New member
HankL,
One thing that we used to do to try to get optimum results from the Special ball was to pull the bullets, and measure the charges from 10-20 loads. We'd get an average charge weight, and then pull the whole lot. We'd then weigh out all the charges to the 'Average' and reassemble the cartridges into what we referred to as 'Mexican Match'. This was time consuming, but would give excellant results at the 600+.
I'd suggest that if you were able to get some Special Ball rounds, pull them down, and weigh the charges. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the powder used was IMR4895. A different lot of powder from what is available now, but if you were had that charge weight as a starting point, I'd hazard a guess that you'd be right in the ball park.
Apologies if you already tried this - don't want to beat a dead horse here for ya! Good Luck! U.G.
One thing that we used to do to try to get optimum results from the Special ball was to pull the bullets, and measure the charges from 10-20 loads. We'd get an average charge weight, and then pull the whole lot. We'd then weigh out all the charges to the 'Average' and reassemble the cartridges into what we referred to as 'Mexican Match'. This was time consuming, but would give excellant results at the 600+.
I'd suggest that if you were able to get some Special Ball rounds, pull them down, and weigh the charges. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the powder used was IMR4895. A different lot of powder from what is available now, but if you were had that charge weight as a starting point, I'd hazard a guess that you'd be right in the ball park.
Apologies if you already tried this - don't want to beat a dead horse here for ya! Good Luck! U.G.
M1A Super Match accuracy
Finally found the time to shoot my M1A Super Match scoped with a Simmons 4-18x40. I purchased the scope mount back in the spring but never found time to shoot it.
My load consisted of once fired military NM Brass, 39.5 grains of Accurate 2230, Hornady 168 gr. BTHP National Match bullet and CCI 250 primer. This load was a untried load the components used were used because I have a lot of each. When I shot Service Rife matches I always used the Sierra 168 gr. HPBT basically because everyone else did. Never could see much difference between the Hornady and the Sierra. This load worked fine in my rifle but may not in yours caution should be used.
The rifle was shot from 200 yards rested on top of my shooting box not sand bagged. It shot 1 inch or a little under for 3 shots groups after getting the scope zeroed in. When I’d shoot 5 shot groups the 4th and 5th shots would open up to 2 inches (my impatience with aiming I guess??). Actually after 40 rounds it wasn’t much fun to shoot. This rifle has always been a very accurate rifle and if you can hold the aim it would shoot where aimed.
I think, next time when I shoot the rifle I’ll bag it off the bench and use the same components but neck size only the brass and set the bullet against the groves of the barrel. This may be interesting as to group size. Will also chronograph the load.
You all have a good day.
Turk
Finally found the time to shoot my M1A Super Match scoped with a Simmons 4-18x40. I purchased the scope mount back in the spring but never found time to shoot it.
My load consisted of once fired military NM Brass, 39.5 grains of Accurate 2230, Hornady 168 gr. BTHP National Match bullet and CCI 250 primer. This load was a untried load the components used were used because I have a lot of each. When I shot Service Rife matches I always used the Sierra 168 gr. HPBT basically because everyone else did. Never could see much difference between the Hornady and the Sierra. This load worked fine in my rifle but may not in yours caution should be used.
The rifle was shot from 200 yards rested on top of my shooting box not sand bagged. It shot 1 inch or a little under for 3 shots groups after getting the scope zeroed in. When I’d shoot 5 shot groups the 4th and 5th shots would open up to 2 inches (my impatience with aiming I guess??). Actually after 40 rounds it wasn’t much fun to shoot. This rifle has always been a very accurate rifle and if you can hold the aim it would shoot where aimed.
I think, next time when I shoot the rifle I’ll bag it off the bench and use the same components but neck size only the brass and set the bullet against the groves of the barrel. This may be interesting as to group size. Will also chronograph the load.
You all have a good day.
Turk