Found a Colt Government Model (WWII vintage) M1911 chambered in .38 Super at a local gun shop. The bluing is absolutely beautiful on this gun. Asking price is $800. Seems awfully high to me but this gun looks to be in 98% condition or better. What advice do you folks have? And where do you get .38 Super ammo??? Thanks.
M1911 Government Model in 38 Super... Should I?
- Thread starter Dogger
- Start date
I've owned two over the years. Excellent gun (as are almost all 1911 variations) and a very under appreciated caliber. The cartridge has been around for 1/2 century or more and has enjoyed limited sporatic popularity. When IPSC was in it's early popularty phase the .38 Super was somewhat popular because it could be loaded to "major" without stressing the cartidge/gun combination too, too much - thus you had a gun with 9mm magazine capacity.
There was a fair aftermarket for barrels with some of the major makers with offerings. These were popular because the standard Colts were rarely as accurate as folks wanted - and if I remember correctly the aftermarket folks reemed the chambers to give full support to the cartidge - desirable when pushing the load limits.
My problem with the Colts (both of them I've owned) is that they fed FMJs (or round nose hard cast lead) very reliably. Anything else was prone to mis-feeds and/or other mal-functions. Others I've known who played with the cartridge have said much the same. I suspose a competent gunsmith who is versed in artful modification of the feeding ramp and all of those other good things that go into making a 1911 feed reliably could fix that. Depending on the gun - shuffling through a bunch of magazines might be profitable if you wanted to feed something other than FMJs. Or, you might be looking at "the one" from Colt that will feed anything you run through it (within reason).
Anyway - I still like the cartridge - I believe it to be a semi-rimmed case and it is more tolerant of seating depth, etc as it headspaces on the rim rather than the case mouth. And, although I'm really fond of the old 1911 slabside - my shooting with the .38 Super is restricted to a Sig 220 which for some reason will feed almost any bullet combination I can concoct. (I suspect a slight difference in the feeding angle - or maybe I'm just blessed with one of those rare ones.)
I expect the cartridge is still available commercially, but probably not commonly stocked by most small to medium dealers. Or conversely - ask around - several may have a few boxes they wish they could turn over and replace with something that moves more quickly.
As to the $800 asking price? My guess is that it partly stems from the current furor about what Colt will continue to sell commercially.
Hope the above is helpful.
There was a fair aftermarket for barrels with some of the major makers with offerings. These were popular because the standard Colts were rarely as accurate as folks wanted - and if I remember correctly the aftermarket folks reemed the chambers to give full support to the cartidge - desirable when pushing the load limits.
My problem with the Colts (both of them I've owned) is that they fed FMJs (or round nose hard cast lead) very reliably. Anything else was prone to mis-feeds and/or other mal-functions. Others I've known who played with the cartridge have said much the same. I suspose a competent gunsmith who is versed in artful modification of the feeding ramp and all of those other good things that go into making a 1911 feed reliably could fix that. Depending on the gun - shuffling through a bunch of magazines might be profitable if you wanted to feed something other than FMJs. Or, you might be looking at "the one" from Colt that will feed anything you run through it (within reason).
Anyway - I still like the cartridge - I believe it to be a semi-rimmed case and it is more tolerant of seating depth, etc as it headspaces on the rim rather than the case mouth. And, although I'm really fond of the old 1911 slabside - my shooting with the .38 Super is restricted to a Sig 220 which for some reason will feed almost any bullet combination I can concoct. (I suspect a slight difference in the feeding angle - or maybe I'm just blessed with one of those rare ones.)
I expect the cartridge is still available commercially, but probably not commonly stocked by most small to medium dealers. Or conversely - ask around - several may have a few boxes they wish they could turn over and replace with something that moves more quickly.
As to the $800 asking price? My guess is that it partly stems from the current furor about what Colt will continue to sell commercially.
Hope the above is helpful.
I think the price is in line for a WWII vintage Super 38 in 98% condition. I have an enhanced Series 80 Super 38 that I gave $600 for. It's a helluva gun, but that one is definitely worth more. It's a collector's item.
Super 38 is available in paramilitary loadings for pretty cheap, $9.00 - 10.00 a box at any store that sells a lot of paramilitary type rifles. Or in the SGN, KY imports, etc. HTH
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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
Super 38 is available in paramilitary loadings for pretty cheap, $9.00 - 10.00 a box at any store that sells a lot of paramilitary type rifles. Or in the SGN, KY imports, etc. HTH
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Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785
Before buying it, I would check a couple of reference books on used gun prices to see what a good price range is for the item you describe. Of course, anything is worth what people are willing to pay for it, not what some book says, but a book reference will give you a place to start when negotiating.
A WWII vintage GM in 38 Super seems (to me) to be more of a collector's item than a shooter, but what you do with it is entirely up to you. I know several people who shoot the heck out of vintage pistols. It is really your call.
As for the 38 Super cartridge, it is still commercially manufactured by UMC (Remington), Winchester (in ball and silvertip), PMC, and a few others. Prices range from $10 a box and on up. It is an under-appreciated cartridge that deserves more attention.
True, it was popular among IPSC shooters about ten years ago, but I haven't kept up with that game, so I can't say now where it stands with them. The 38 Super is a good cartridge for the handloader because it lends itself to many loading options. I would stay away though from trying to "make major" with it, especially in an older pistol. It can be a good performer without too much hotrodding.
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It only takes one bullet to change your life.
A WWII vintage GM in 38 Super seems (to me) to be more of a collector's item than a shooter, but what you do with it is entirely up to you. I know several people who shoot the heck out of vintage pistols. It is really your call.
As for the 38 Super cartridge, it is still commercially manufactured by UMC (Remington), Winchester (in ball and silvertip), PMC, and a few others. Prices range from $10 a box and on up. It is an under-appreciated cartridge that deserves more attention.
True, it was popular among IPSC shooters about ten years ago, but I haven't kept up with that game, so I can't say now where it stands with them. The 38 Super is a good cartridge for the handloader because it lends itself to many loading options. I would stay away though from trying to "make major" with it, especially in an older pistol. It can be a good performer without too much hotrodding.
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It only takes one bullet to change your life.
Dogger--
Personally, I'd be glad to own a Colt's .38 Super of that vintage and would buy it at that price (if I had the money). I'd look the pistol over carefully--it seems to me that lots of Colts have been tinkered with by owners seeking to "improve" them.
If I shot such a gun, I would use only factory hardball. Frankly, however, I would not shoot it much if at all. I would certainly not modify it in any way. Instead, I'd keep it as a collector's item to admire for the old-time, vanishing quality it represents.
Best of luck with your purchase.
Personally, I'd be glad to own a Colt's .38 Super of that vintage and would buy it at that price (if I had the money). I'd look the pistol over carefully--it seems to me that lots of Colts have been tinkered with by owners seeking to "improve" them.
If I shot such a gun, I would use only factory hardball. Frankly, however, I would not shoot it much if at all. I would certainly not modify it in any way. Instead, I'd keep it as a collector's item to admire for the old-time, vanishing quality it represents.
Best of luck with your purchase.
Thanks, I did some research and come to find out Colt made the M1911 Super .38 up until 1971. So the gun I am admiring may not be a WWII vintage gun at all. I am going to go back and check out the condition of the gun more thoroughly and also the serial number to determine when it was made. I appreciate the posts. 