M16A7

S

Shin-Tao

New member
Like it or hate it, DOD isn't going to replace this action anytime soon.

Now, without debating whether Gene designed a good rifle or not, let's propose improvements and alterations we would make to the M16. Specify if you are veiwing the M16 as a "battle rifle" or an "assault rifle", as some people favour one theory over the other.

If you are going to say: "I wouldn't change anything. The M16 is fine the way it is.", don't post. We know you think this already. I'm trying to collect interesting ideas, and changing nothing isn't interesting.

I'll list my proposals after we get a few responses.

Let's see some ideas!
 
From My experiences....

...in the Army Nat'l Guard with M16A1's, and A2's in boot camp.

-Get rid of that three round burst. If you're not going to train troops to effectively use full auto, then issue them semiauto rifles.

-A knob for adjusting the front sight. The military rarely issues a sight tool.

-A short-barreled version should be issued to us Engineers. It's hard running det cord through a mine field with a full-blown AR flopping around on the sling.

-Take that silly compartment out of the buttstock. Nobody carries anything there, and it's a pain to clean. If you put something in there, it'd rattle like crazy.

-Make the ^%J&$%$# hanguards easier to take off.

-Put a cap on the bottom of the hollow pistol grip, so dirt doesn't get in there. It's just one more thing to clean before weapons turn in.

-A little trigger work wouldn't hurt.

-Polish the action up a little. The M16 has a natsy tendnacy to jam when dirty. Not bad in of itself, but Army rifles tend to get dirty.

-BETTER MAGAZINES

-The flash suppressor is removable on the A1s, at least. How about bringing back barrel-launched rifle grenades, instead of having to have a clunky launcher? The Germans have developed a grenade (I believe it's becoming NATO standard in Europe) that has a hole in it so you don't need to use blanks.
 
1. Re-engineer the gas system. Instead of direct gas impingement, replace the gas tube with an op rod like on the FAL. This would eliminate most of the complaints about "defecating where it eats".

2. Re-engineer the bolt. Ditch that ridiculous little spring loaded ejector. Put a cut in the bolt face, and machine a fixed ejector right on the upper receiver. Kind of like every other military rifle on the planet. The spring loaded ejector sucks, little pieces of brass or dirt can work their way under the roll pin and you have got yourself a single shot. I know, I've done it. :(

3. There is no need for such a long bolt carrier. Since you are redesigning the bolt anyway, have a short bolt carrier, and then you don't need a buffer that extends into the stock. Then the rifle could have a real folding stock instead of the collapsible one.

4. Loosen the tolerences a bit to allow for the gun to work even when it is gunked up. Everybody else on the planet has done so, probably for good reason. Military rifles do not need to be that tight, and they can be more reliable and still accurate enough.

5. Sturdier magazines would be good.


I also like Nightcrawlers suggestions.
 
IMHO the pooping in the food supply should stop by A7.

What is a better gas powered action design?
Robinson M96?
ZM weapons?
Galil?

dZ
 
1)Get rid of the obnoxious charging handle. Instead have a simple reciprocating bolt handle on right side of the receiver. No more foreward assist needed.

2)Add a solid tubular handgaurd that extends a few inches beyond the muzzle.

3)barrel 18 inches and fluted.

4)AK74 muzzle break.

5)No carry handle.

6)Rear sights moved forward to be mounted on the handgaurd where the reciver and handgaurd meet. A flat rail like on the Styre ACR which extends to the front sight assy for snap shooting.

7)Foregrip with slight forward slant.

8)shorter stock.

9)Better magazines.

10)safe-semi-full selector.


The 16 is an assault rifle. It is select fire and uses an intermediate cartridge.
 
Take that silly compartment out of the buttstock. Nobody carries anything there, and it's a pain to clean. If you put something in there, it'd rattle like crazy.
Click to expand...

In the late 1960s, a Soviet magazine for technically inclined teenagers claimed that the reason for the M16 butt-trap was...



















...to keep greedy capitalist soldiers from dropping their rifles in combat and running away. Apparently, keeping valuables in the stock would turn even the American cowards into sturdy heros. :D
 
If they're wedded to the 3-round burst idea, a higher cyclic rate for burst fire might not be too bad an idea. It could be done by lightening/shortening the bolt carrier per Correia's suggestion.
 
Good suggestions above, I wont argue with any of it. My only addition is change that caliber. I know we could debate this for years on end, wounding vs killing and all that, but I believe Armalite has a great idea with that .243 they put out. It would be a real pain to introduce, but once in place, I believe the .243 would better serve our military.

Still controllable on full auto, a little bit more leg room as far as engagement distance and more hard hitting than .223.
 
Nightcrawler, Must be an army NG thing, but everyone I know uses the compartment to keep their cleaning gear. What cleaning kit are you using for it to rattle? The issue one in the rubberized pouch has to be forced in and has a snug fit and shouldn't make any noise.
 
Mine

Have an integral raised shotgun style rail system for rapid target aquisition with simple iron sights, and have picatiny rail grooves on it to allow the addition of a variety if optical gunsight systems.

Bullpup the system with a forward and top centerline located charging handle like the FAMAS or better yet, the G36.

Change to caliber from .223 to be able to chamber either .243 or .300 Whisper.

Integral Bi-Pod like the FAMAS.

Adjustable gas system like the FAL.

Shotgun style quick break open like the FAL.

Fixed Ejector like the M96

Quick removable barrel system with different barrel options like the AUG and G36 systems.

Adjustable rate of fire control.

Selector offering Single, Burst, and Full.
 
I think the M16M7 should be inaccurate, unreliable, dangerous to the user and issued to the BAThugs as standard weapon. Considering that the rest of us are limited by legislation, the idea of the enemy having better weapons annoys me.
 
Find a way to attach accessories like grenade launchers w/o cutting away (thinning out) the bbl. That is the dumbest idea besides thickening the bbl at muzzle (A2). Where it needs the meat is below the handguard. Also the m4 bbl with its skinny spots. What is with DOD??? A rifle should double as a club, imho.

Safe/semi/auto. What is with 3 round burst? Put short butt stock back on.

Put bolt handle on side of bolt, do away with forward assist.
 
1. Create a better bullet that fragments at the lower M4 velocities.
2. Use a gas rod design similar to the "Rhino" conversions available in the '80's. It utilized an adjustable gas piston setup somewhat reminiscent of the FAL. This not only eliminates quite a bit of receiver fouling, it also allows an adjustable cyclic rate.
3. Heavy duty,steel magazine with thicker feed lips, but retain the same quick change design it currently has.
4. Lower the front sight considerably. Use a weaver rail similar to the A3 with capability for any number of optical sights such as the ACOG. Also a flip up peep at the rear of the rail that is simple to battle sight w/o wasting space on the rather useless range adjusting feature. Who has time to do that in combat?
5. Full auto and semi only like the newest M4's.
Geeez, this isn't too tough. This should be the A5!
 
STLRN

...All of our rifles are A1s. Only a couple have the newer buttstocks with the little trapdoor. A couple are converted AR-15s. Anyhoo, to answer your question, we don't carry cleaning kits in there because they don't issue us cleaning kits. Each squad manages to put a big one together, and after training we all get together and have the weapons-cleaning bazar, but if you want a cleaning kit, you prettymuch have to bring your own. Of course, we still have M113A2 APCs which run about as well as a '77 Ford that's pushed off of the roof of a five-story building, and then peed on. Thankfully, we have tireless mechanics.

My gripe about the little compartment was that it's just one more thing that's a pain in the arse to clean. I hate little nooks and crannys on weapons like that. Like the insides of the handguards on the '16, or ANY part of the SAW....
 
Most of my ideas have already come up. Still...

A Z-M Weapons interconnecting op-rod upper reciever, fixed ejector, and redesigned steel magazine that can take some abuse would eliminate most of my problems with the M16/AR15 weapon system.

The handguard extending past the muzzle is a really good idea. Why didn't I think of that?

A flattop upper reciever with nice, sturdy, FAL-style peep-sights (calibrated out to 300m in 50m increments) would be nice.

Move the cocking handle to the front left of the reciever.

Use a more hand-filling pistol grip, the one from Sierra Precison is pretty nice.

Get rid of the sling swivel on the barrel. Put it a few inches back on the handguard.

Changing the caliber would be nice (.221 Fireball blown out to 6.5mm, 100-grain extra-long FMJ at 3000fps, call it the 6.5mm Christopher) but not necessary. Probably the one thing I don't have a problem with on the AR15 is the caliber.

Use a freakin' standard-weight barrel.

BTW, Poodleshooter, do you have any more info on those "Rhino" conversions? Are they still available? Where can I find out more about them?

Later,
Chris
 
I Think Changing the Gas System is a Mistake

I know a lot of people don't like the direct impingment gas system, but in reality it's one of the things that keeps the weight down. To use an operating rod system would add at least a pound to what is already becoming a pretty heavy rifle. The increase in reliability would not be great enough to warrant the extra weight we'd ask an already ovewr burdened Infantryman to carry. Reliability is a function of preventaive maintenance and making certain that happens is a basic NCO duty. It doesn't take but a couple of minutes a day to clean the rifle enough to keep it operational. The Army even publishes a little pocket card that lists the basic daily items. The weapon does not have to be white glove inspection clean to be reliable.

Also I'd be very afraid to mess with the bolt carrier or buffer. I'm not an engineer, but I have built several AR15s and I'm fairly familiar with the developmental history and the right buffer weight and bolt carrier mass was a pain to get right when working with the Olin ball type powder military ammunition is loaded with. They even had reliability problems with the M4A1. They have retrofitted all of them with a heavier buffer and a stronger extractor spring and insert.

These are the changes I'd make on the M16A7:

1. Fire control parts would be safe-semi-auto. This would eliminate the lousy trigger pull that the safe-semi-burst trigger group is noted for.

2. I'd do away with the carry handle on all M16s and put an Aimpoint Comp M and every fire team leader would get the 4x32 ACOG TAO1-NSN. Rugged back up irons would be on every rifle. Non Infantry units could just use the backups as primary sight.

3. The M4 or M5 (depending on barrel length)RAS would be standard on all weapons. Some parts of the Land Warrior program will be fielded and this will make every rifle and carbine in the inventory capable of using them.

4. I would make the furniture a green or brown color. This would make the weapon easier to camouflage everywhere but the arctic, and also make it cooler to handle in the sun (the black furniture gets pretty hot in the sun)

5. I would put the rear sling swivel on top of the buttstock and replace the front one with the side sling adapter like on the M4 and on M16s that mount the M203. This will allow a slightly longer plain nylon sling to be issued and the soldier can rig a combat sling without using the terrible issue top sling adapter kit or jury rigging with bootlaces or 550 cord.

Jeff
 
Jeff White -

The Z-M Weapons upper uses an op-rod system and the complete gun weighs around seven pounds unloaded. So do the G36 and the Steyr AUG, and if I recall correctly they're both even lighter.

Later,
Chris
 
MM161A...................

Build the rifle exactly as it is, except make it in 762x51!!!!.
I mean, DO NOT add any weight to it, make cuts, and adjustments for the rifle to handle the extra pressures...
Increased range, increased lethality, er' wounding capabilities.
Much more accurate.
Novel idea!!!
Steel mags.
Adjustable gas system,like a FNFAL.( IF made for F A).
Or Semi only.
I know this sounds crazy..........but, which of you wouldn't give a body part(small!), for a FULL power .308 round..in a size of todays M16/AR series frame???.
The technology is HERE, and can be done.....
OH, well, nice pipe dream.............
On the .243's....no way.........barrel life in semi mode, maybe 2000 rounds, F A capable???......1k or less...a barrel a day!!!!!!!!!
 
An op-rod system would be too heavy, but the Land Warriors' big black boxes and computers wouldn't be?

I won't even address the "keep them clean and they won't jam" theory. That wasn't to be brought up here.
 
I like the idea of it in .308 - but then again - if I wanted a .308 battle rifle - it would be the FAL clone = L1A1. I like the L1 better due to the HK like Folding Handle. Its the little things that make the differences.
 
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