M14: Performance in Sandy Conditions?

Q

Q-Man

New member
I always hear people talking about how poorly the M16 performs in sandy or otherwise dirty conditions and how well the AK47 is still able to perform under these same conditions. Does anyone have any knowledge of the M14's performance in these conditions? It has an exposed bolt area, which makes it easy for sand to get into, but the sand should be able to leave just as easily. The M16, on the other hand, has a relatively closed bolt carrier area that makes it easy to see how sand will screw it up.

First hand experience, government test data, or reliable stories would be the most interesting.
 
The gas system of the M-14, unlike the Garand, is quite good in sand conditions, but I strongly suspect that the action has horrid problems when filled with dust and sand, mainly because the tolerances on an M-14 are quite small. It isn't a hard gun to clean though, so outside of dust storm conditions it probably is reliable enough...
 
Field Manual

specifies removal of grease before use of rifle in sandy conditions, followed as soon as possible by cleaning, inspection and re-lube.
 
I've HEARD rumors of Desert Storm operations revealing some sandy condition shortcomings in the Steyr AUG (Saudi-deployed?) and even the H&K 93 (not sure I believe this). but I've also heard that very few small arms shots were fired in that dust-up anyway.

I'd like more data. The rumors I've heard made no mention of the M14, perhaps because all those remaining in U.S. hands are in the Navy's shipboard security force lockers (?).

I've never seen one choke on the firing line (other than ammo and a trigger group failure--bad home-brew 'smithing), but those were all cleaned the night before and only half the users used the light lubing considered best for dusty conditions. Conditions were windy/slightly dusty several times, but that area has most of the dust blown away already...

Anyone have stats?
 
Are there any Korean War vets out there that had to drag an M14 through the mud/sand/dust and then shoot it?
 
The M14 is different to the FAL/M16/Aug/AK47. . . . .

The top of its bolt is exposed, and with the mag out you can see thru to the bottom of the gun.

The AK would be good in sand due to loose tolerances and all that space in the receiver and oversized bolt.

But IMHO even though the actions are closed the dirt can/will still get IN through openings.

The real question is - then what?

The FAL (which I like BTW) has no forward assist - all you can do with the bolt is rack it back, discard a round, try again. If sand gets in it is INSIDE the gun.

M16 too - while you have a forward assist, if nastiness gets in there you have to open up the gun.

With the M14 you can give the op rod a solid bash forward. The sand can run out the sides of the bolt and OUT of the gun. If you push the bolt back, you can access the chamber area through the top.

IMHO while sand can get in the M14, it is also easier to get out, or to fall out on its own.

(Not that I have tried any of the above in such conditions - I tend to baby my toys :) )


Battler.
 
I know what you mean about babying your toys. I have an M1A and an AR15, but the mere thought of performing "reliability tests" makes me shudder.
 
Korea

Q-man: Korean war was early 50's, but the M14 didn't come out until late 50's, or even early 60's (AFAIK).

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
 
The FAL dust cover has lots of room around it, and the Canadian ones are truely open over the bolt carrier, but yeah you still have the carrier/bolt issue.

The SEALs still use the M14 in desert and freezing conditions. Desert for its ability to deal with dust and sand. I don't know why in the cold, other than maybe the performance of the 7.62 over 5.56 in extreame cold.
 
"other than maybe the performance of the 7.62 over 5.56 in extreame cold."...........and the heat, and the nice weather, and the rain, and the wind, etc. :D :D
 
In extremely dense (like 40 below zero) air, the M193 round in the M16A1 (that's ONE) can become unstable, like M855 at regular temperatures when fired from a 1-12 twist barrel.

I've tried the M855 at 85 degrees from a 1-12 twist. Not pretty.

Maybe that's why they reportedly prefer the M14 in the cold?
 
Sorry. I always thought that the M14 saw some service in Korea; I guess it was just the early part of Vietnam.

Does anyone know at what temperatures CLP will become "stiff"? The M16 needs lots of CLP, which may be a reason to switch to a grease lubricated M14 in cold temperatures. Also, I would feel more confident shooting a bad guy with a 308 than a 223 if that bad guy were wearing layers of clothing to keep himself warm.
 
M14:Sandy conditions

I trained at Ft. Benning(1968) with the M14. It locked up on the range bad. A few months later I was in Nam as an infantryman with the 16. We had the LSA oil.My 16 never jammed in The Central Highlands and field conditions were bad.
I feel the M193 is better for its intended purpose than the M14 round.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top