M&P 15 Sport, Your Experience

Well, it depends on how much you are going to spend on it. You can get a "Real" M&P15 for $799. It has the A2 sight and carry handle/sight. Comes with 1 30rd PMag magazine, and 10 20rd thermold magazines. (Which i like). "CDNN Has this sale currently". If you're military, S&W even has a $100 rebate. The "Sport" doesn't qualify for the rebate. The "Sport" simply isn't the same quality. And if you don't need sights, because you already have some, you can get the M&P15-OR (Optical Ready), for an average price of around $725-$750. Plus the rebate if you're military or retired.

Now; if you are getting the "Sport" for $599, then saving $200 would be worth it. But only if you don't qualify for the rebate. Because the rebate brings it to $625-699 depending on the model. Definitely a better deal than the $600 sport. If you don't qualify for the rebate, then I wouldn't pay any more than $650 for a "Sport". Any more than that and you'd be better with the "Standard" or "OR" version of the M&P15.

Of course, if you only buy from local gun shops, and you're going to pay $200-$300 than what the weapon is worth anyway; then do whatever you want. Opinions are only good if you're willing to entertain options. "Such as buying online or shopping around".

Reloading; I have no opinion on. I have reloaded for decades, and still do for my hunting rounds. But I don't for .223 because I don't need that level of accuracy, and my M&P15 shoots $4 a box steel case ammo perfectly. I wouldn't save much by reloading. Good luck.
 
So far mine has fired 700 of my reloads without issue.

The "Sport" simply isn't the same quality.

No offense, but I keep hearing that. Nobody can nail down any particulars when I ask to elaborate.
 
Ask S&W if you want. Do the research. Honestly; do you think a company randomly decides how much to charge for an item? A sport doesn't cost $300-$400 less than the standard M&P15 because it was made "More Efficiently". Look at the Bushmaster and their Carbon-15. When I spoke with S&W about the "Sport", I asked the big differences. They mentioned the melonite vs chrome-lined; in the bore and chamber. The mentioned the dust cover and the forward assist. I asked them if that alone was worth the $300 retail price difference. They admitted that that alone isn't $300-$400 difference. He mentioned that it was less labor. Well, to me, that means quality control, inspections, machining of parts, etc... They may not have told me that, but that's what less labor means to me. Or; they are using "Different" parts.

Point is, any business model will base a selling price off of expenses and cost of producing and selling the item; with a profit margin attached. Now, if you believe that melonite instead of chrome, no dust cover, and no forward assist results in a $300-$400 savings in production, and that everything else about the rifle is identical to the standard production of M&P15 series, then good for you. I'll take what they told me, along with my knowledge of business, and make my own opinion.

FWIW: I mentioned in the previous post, as well as a shiite load of other posts; if you can get the Sport for $600 or less; which I've seen them offered for as low as $535, then that would be a GREAT DEAL... I'm simply saying, for the 2,355th time; if you're going to spend OVER $650 for the sport, then you SHOULD be spending that on the better M&P15 model. You can get the traditional M&P15 for that price. Just like I tell people if they are going to go past the $850 mark for an M&P15 or WORSE YET, a bushmaster, Rock River, etc... then they should INSTEAD buy a Colt, BCM, etc... Those can all be bought or put together for $850-$1000. But a $600 M&P15 Sport is a decent deal. A $700 Sport is NOT A DECENT DEAL. It's that simple.
 
Very helpful guys, thank you. Have a friend FFL where i can get it at his cost + shipping. We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
 
Christcorp, Chris in VA and I have been having this discussion for a few weeks, but I think that we're saying the same thing. At $600 or less, the Sport is hard to beat. I bought mine at a local gun shop for $599. The next best price that I could find locally, after shopping at Cabela's, Bass Pro and several locally owned shops, was $799 for a Bushmaster OR.

I like that S&W came out with the Sport because I think that it will encourage a lot of first time buyers (like me) to take the plunge and try the AR platform. I've been pleasantly surprised at how much fun I've had shooting it.

I have 420 rounds through it in 5 range trips and it has functioned perfectly. At this point, "quality" arguments are irrelevant to me. A gun that functions flawlessly from round 1 through round 420 is more than a "plinker." Most self defense guru's recommend that if you can shoot 200 rounds of a particular ammo in your gun without malfunction then you can trust it with your life. I have double that through the M&P, so by the "experts" standards it is a reliable self-defense weapon.
 
Less labor. Of course it is, due to the lack of extra parts you will never use. I'm sure the upper is considerably easier to produce than one with everything tacked on.

Again, no actual proof that the Sport is less quality than say...an OR. By 'quality' I mean materials used, tolerances, testing etc.

then you SHOULD be spending that on the better M&P15 model.

What's better about it?
 
I don't know what anyone else is saying, but I'm saying that if my choices are this:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/53496

or this:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_763_977/products_id/36913

compared to the Sport at $599 I would, and did, choose the Sport.

Bud's has the complete S&W lower for $308, so I figure that the Sport upper only cost me $291. I know from my inspections that the fit and finish on the upper are excellent and I see no evidence that they cut corners on machining or assembling the upper. I don't know if the Sport upper goes through the same inspection process as the other M&P15's, but I have found no evidence of defects in mine and if one appears, I'll return it per S&W's lifetime warranty. Since this is a S&W, I really don't anticipate a problem with manufacturing defects.

For me, the decision was whether I was willing to spend $300 to $400 more for an upper that has parts I don't need. I wasn't for my first AR purchase. Others probably are and I would never question their judgment because in the end the most important thing is that you be comfortable with your weapon. If the higher priced weapons give you more pleasure or a higher comfort level, then the extra cost is worth the money.
 
I think that it's fair to say that the rest of the S&W line has some "cost added" features, but it's up to the shooter to say whether there is significant value added. The OR carbine goes on sale fairly regularly, this is not because the people at S&W are swell guys doing their pat to support the shooting community, it's because the rifles aren't selling well at the normal price, and the true market price, aka what people consider the value of the rifle to be, is closer to the 649-699 or whatever they go on sale for. Comparing the MSRPs of the rifles to the street price and then counting the "discount" as a plus for the other M&Ps is a bit misleading. I think that the sport was just brought to the scene with a more realistic MSRP.

Personally, the features on the other M&Ps (CL, FA, DC) are worth about $75 to me over the sport, which is to say that unless the price difference was <$75, I wouldn't consider myself to be "getting a deal." Also note that the only M&P to get close pricewise is the OR, and you need to add at least $50 in sights to get yourself range ready (...and there goes the "deal.") If your valuation of the chrome, assist and dust cover differs from mine, your buying equation would look different obviously.

As a little side note, I'm pretty convinced that the most important determinant of AR reliability, properly cleaned, and once it's been determined that the rifle is properly gassed, is the BCG, and I having seen a few other S&W BCGs, I have no reason to believe that the entire M&P line does not share the same BCG, sport included.
 
That you would choose the "Sport"? Whatever.....

Yes. I don't want a forward assist, m-203 cut, removable trigger guard or 'dust cover'. They are simply not needed for 'civilian use'.

I'm not a soldier in the Army, just a guy that wants something for fun at the range, HD and possibly carbine matches.

Here, let's play this out a bit. Which has better quality, a Toyota Camry or Corolla? Which one will give you the most trouble free miles? One has more 'features' than the other.
 
Comparing the MSRPs of the rifles to the street price and then counting the "discount" as a plus for the other M&Ps is a bit misleading. I think that the sport was just brought to the scene with a more realistic MSRP.

The numbers I used were Bud's prices(see links), which are market prices, not MSRP. I used $599 for the Sport because that is what I paid at a LGS. When Bud's has the Sport is stock, it is usually listed for $589 or less.

If you can find the OR on sale for $650 that is certainly a good price, but the OR concept bothers me because the price savings on an OR comes from the lack of optics or iron sights. Calling it "Optics Ready" is a nice marketing ploy and may be a good deal for someone who wants to put a scope or Eotech on top and doesn't need sights. However, for me an OR can be more accurately called an "NS" - no sights. Even a cheap set of front and rear sights will cost $75 or more, so at $650 for the rifle, the price to get it ready to shoot is $725 or higher. Still a good deal for S&W quality, but IMO so is the Sport.

The great thing about the free market is that we get choices.

BTW, I have seen the sales price of $650 for an OR stated in various posts, but I shopped for three months before buying the Sport and have periodically checked since then and the best price that I've seen for an OR is in the $800+ range. Add cheap iron sights and you're at $900 to get it ready to shoot. The Sport got me into an AR for $300 less, so I'm happy.
 
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Now, if you believe that melonite instead of chrome, no dust cover, and no forward assist results in a $300-$400 savings in production, and that everything else about the rifle is identical to the standard production of M&P15 series, then good for you.

You listed the differences. Barrel treatment and upper receiver. If we assume that there are no differences in the lower receiver this holds true.

Melonite over chrome does offer savings when you look at throughput of competing production lines. Melonite is basically from a salt bath that won't overplate like chroming can, so you do save on a QC step right there.

No forward assist and dust cover saves another two QC steps. I don't think that the Sport is discounted, I think the other models are "marked up" to get a little more profit.

So yes, when you look at throughput of production, a 30 dollar savings in manufacturing turns into a 50 dollar savings on QC steps and that means an 80 dollar savings per unit. Since the other models cost more to make S&W can sell Sports in volume which ensures profit, while the other models have a higher price point which gives more profit per unit, but less profit to the company because of lack of volume.

But this is pretty much supposition as to how similar rifles can sell for hundreds of dollars difference from the same company. I don't have access to S&W sales records or manufacturing process to know for sure either way. Anyways, it doesn't seem to me that the Sport is "substandard" so much as manufactured to a specific price point.

Jimro
 
I asked them if that alone was worth the $300 retail price difference. They admitted that that alone isn't $300-$400 difference. He mentioned that it was less labor. Well, to me, that means quality control, inspections, machining of parts, etc...

Not sure who you talked to, but I doubt that he was from the accounting group. I can see the following savings in the Sport, none of which affect the functions that I need:

1. Melonite treatment is cheaper than chrome lining the bore and chamber.

2. Melonite treatment treats the entire barrel, both interior and exterior. When you chrome line a barrel you have to also parkerize or otherwise treat the exterior of the barrel. That cost is eliminated with melonite treatment.

2. Smith already had the melonite treatment capacity because it uses that process on its pistols. No new capital investment means no amortization cost added to the per unit cost by the bean counters.

3. The exterior of the barrel is smooth, rather than an M4 profile with grenade launcher cutouts. Lower machining costs to machine the barrel.

4. No dust cover means lower costs to machine the upper.

5. No dust cover means no cost for those parts.

6. No dust cover means no labor cost to install the cover.

7. No forward assist means lower machining costs to machine the upper.

8. No forward assist means no cost for the forward assist parts.

9. No forward assist means no labor cost to install the forward assist.

10. Integrated trigger guard means no cost to make or purchase the lower hinge.

11. Integrated trigger guard means no cost to install the hinge.

12. No acquisition, inventory, handling or storage costs for the eliminated parts.

13. Lower unit cost means higher sales volumes, justifying lower per unit margins, especially with no new capital investment to amortize.

14. Higher sales volume means less carrying cost per unit because the rifles spend less time on the shelf.

That's fourteen cost saving items for the Sport without having to lower the quality of the materials used, fit and finish or QC.

Considering all of the known cost savings items, I don't think that you need to assume other cost cutting measures to explain the per unit cost.
 
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"Some" of you just aren't getting it. How many times must I say, that a "Sport" for under $600 is a great deal??? How many times???

Here's the difference, argument, debate, or whatever you want to call it.

There's 3 things a person has to consider when they are deciding on buying an AR.

1. Total price they want/willing to spend.
2. Where they are willing to buy from.
3. Are they impatient, or willing to shop around.

Dollars are a finite and specific concept. It doesn't matter if you buy it from a friend; at a local gun shop; or online. $600 is $600. $800 is $800. $1000 is $1000. It's value does not change.

If you will ONLY buy from local gun shops, and will not consider ordering a gun, then the "Sport" will ALWAYS be a better price. Hands down. No argument. In that case; this thread and total discussion is a moot point. Just go buy it.

If you're willing to shop around, and willing to buy online if needed, and know how to shop around, then it's quite possible to get an M&P15 or M&P15OR or another M&P15 for basically the same exact price that you would spend on the M&P15-Sport. Therefor; why would you consider the Sport. Again; this only applies if you're willing to shop around and buy from different sources. If you're only going to buy from local gun stores in your town, and not drive out of town or order online, then just buy the Sport. It will always be cheaper.

I bought my M&P15-OR for a final price of $649. I will take that over a Sport for the $600-$650 price range. I did have to shop around, and look for sales. Again; if you're not willing to do these things, then just spend the money on the sport.

And I say the same thing for those who are willing to pay $800-$900 for the M&P15's. If you're willing to spend that much, then you SHOULDN'T BE BUYING the M&P15. You can buy a COLT for that much money. You can get a BCM for that kind of money. You can buy other higher quality AR's for that kind of money. Now; if you're willing to Spend $800-$900 on the AR, and you aren't willing to shop around or buy online, and you're only going to buy from your local gun shops, then definitely go buy the $800-$900 M&P15 if that's what you want. You're not going to find it any cheaper.

The problem is: People are wanting to compare apples with oranges, but they refuse to buy EITHER apple or oranges. They only want to buy apples.

For the 2,364 time: If you can buy the Sport for UNDER $600, whether locally, online, shopping around for sales at BBS like Sportsmans Warehouse, Cabelas, Gander, etc... Then that is a fantastic price. Nothing wrong with buying the Sport. No debate. No argument. If you're final price is going to be $650-$700 or above for the Sport, then DON'T ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR DEAL!!!!!!!!! Why? Because you obviously AREN'T willing to shop around or order an AR. Because if you WERE, you'd be able to get a number of the other M&P15's for around that same price. Same goes if you buy the M&P15, or OR, any of the others. If you paid under $800, excellent. If you paid $850+, then you obviously didn't do your homework. As much as I love the S&W M&P15, if I was spending $850, I would have bought the Colt 6520 or another. Those can be bought for around that same price. The REAL JOKE, is when people think Bushmaster and such are STILL HIGH QUALITY, and they spend around $1000 for one and think they are getting a great deal. They aren't. There are so many BETTER AR's out there for the same or LESS money.

LAST WORD: If you get the Sport for $600 or Less; it's a GREAT DEAL. Buy it. I don't care where it came from. If you ONLY buy locally, and you don't shop around or are willing to order, then don't even ask how you did. It's irrelevant. And if you're willing to shop around, or order a rifle, and you spent MORE THAN $650 on a "Sport", then sorry: That is not a good price. You could have gotten better for the same amount of money.
 
And if you're willing to shop around, or order a rifle, and you spent MORE THAN $650 on a "Sport", then sorry: That is not a good price. You could have gotten better for the same amount of money.

Agreed. I hesitated at the first price of $639 quoted by my LGS, but bought when they got one in and priced it at $599. Now the price is $699 and I wouldn't buy at that price.

My second choice was a Spikes Tactical middie at $810 complete with detachable carry handle and F marked front sight base. I bought the Sport because I can later add an ST midlength upper for $535 and have total cost of $843 for that weapon and then put the Sport upper on a Plum Crazy or Aeroprecision lower for a total cost of less than $500 in that weapon. Two perfectly functional AR's for under $1400 if I want and I have one to shoot while I wait the 6 to 8 weeks for the ST upper to come in.
 
then it's quite possible to get an M&P15 or M&P15OR or another M&P15 for basically the same exact price that you would spend on the M&P15-Sport. Therefor; why would you consider the Sport.

You could have gotten better for the same amount of money.

And again, I ask...what makes the OR 'better' than the Sport? It's a valid question, nobody can seem to nail it down.:confused:

I also looked at the Spike's Tactical but soon realized I didn't need all that 'tacticool' junk they put on there, and have to wait 2-3 months to get it.
 
I've already mentioned some things that make it better. You've already responded that those differences don't matter to you. Therefor, the question is irrelevant and a straw. You bought the Sport; you don't care about the differences; you're happy with it; therefor it doesn't matter. What matters, and it's been said TOO MANY TIMES, is how much you spent on it, if you were willing to shop around or online. If you paid under $600 for the sport, you done did good. If you spent more than that, you didn't.
 
M&P 15 Sport, Your Experience

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Considering this for first AR semi-auto, AND will be handloading the ammo.

You will not be disappointed with the Sport as your first AR. I reload, Hornady 55 gr FMJ using BLC2 and H335 powder and both shot well with it. Planning on trying VMax for next trip to range.

Good luck with your purchase.:cool:
 
thanks for the input, wiating until i sell one of my sig 229s before i buy, will have to sacrifice one for another (personal-economics)... uhhg
 
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