Lurkers: Think we've changed any minds?

D

Dangus

New member
I think it's safe to assume at least one federal LEO checks boards like these as a part of their duties, but surely not all of them are without opinions and ideals. So, I must ask the question: Have we changed any minds?

While those aforementioned lurkers are probably forbidden from consorting with "the enemy", I'm sure all this logic and reason must be having some effect.

So, either they have hired the most unwavering gun-grabbers to lurk here, or there is a chance we've influenced some opinions.

What do ya think?

------------------
The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
I don't know - posting info/analysis on these boards is like writing a note, putting it in a bottle, and chucking it overboard.

It's one reason I post on the Michael Moore board. Surprisingly, there are some open-minded pro-gun-control posters there. I base that on the lack of flames on some of my posts. In the meantime, when I answer, it is with an eye towards the bleachers.
 
Well, it's hard to say since anti-gun sentiment is a lot like racism. A black preacher can be eloquent, logical, passionate, funny, and friendly yet fail to get through to a KKK member. At best, in such a case, he can get the KKK member to like him personally but fail to apply that generalization to other blacks.

I will agree with Oatka that "evangelism" in other boards does indeed work, especially on those that have been programmed with an anti-gun feeling but without strong opinions either way. Logic, reasoning, and qualitative facts (social costs, comparisions between other durable goods, history lessons, etc.) has a strong positive effect on them.

The BIGGEST problem with "evangelism" is being concise. Go on too long and you're a "ranter" that's "cluttering the issue"... kinda tough to convey the qualitative facts as a sound bite w/o it sounding like a sound bite.

Most common defense I seen of gun control? "Oh fine, so there are some flaws in logic... big deal, doesn't mean we should throw the entire thing out!"

Sigh.
 
Yeah, I bet we have. The dialog doesn't get nasty and heated, and we stay on topic. And we mostly all agree on the topic of firearms and their proper use and handling.

I've been posting over on that Micheal Moore forum the past week and have found that the board is a dominate liberal forum. Having said that, most if not all are "converting" to our side on the topic of gun-laws. Oh the joy! It's amazing to see them stop and say "Oh, now I see you're right." Most of them are not familiar with firearms and base their opinions upon the information given them via the media and the political parties.

As far as an LEO checking this board. I'd bet my next paycheck on it. As far as converting the Lurkers. I suspect we have.

I wish more anti's would visit this sight and give us a chance to plead our case as a group. We could really change some minds with our reasoning and polite manner in which we argue.

Regards,
MP
 
MP and Oatka, Do you guys think any of the MM folks would be interested in this board?

zook
 
Some fence-sitting lurkers, impressed with our civility, have become true
allies.

Some folks who were anti-gun, usually because of fear or past (bad)
experiences, also have been impressed with TFLers’ willingness to discuss,
explain, and document facts (which blow HCI's lies and misrepresentations
out of the water). Some of these former anti-freedom folks have become
very active TFLers.

A few anti-gunners have come here, plastered their inflammatory rhetoric on
TFL and been verbally crucified. Such times are not our finest hour. We
have lost lurkers because we sounded like "lesser" RKBA boards.

We stand a much better chance of converting the uncommitted, as well as
the outright opposition, if we remain civil, document our facts, and treat each
other with common courtesy.

Too many folks on our side confuse courtesy with weakness. Crude, vulgar,
threatening comments only support the opposition. Rich’s “high road” is
neither weak nor ineffective. It is the more-likely route to victory.
 
zook (MMM interested in TFL?) - "It wouldn't hoit".

I suspect they have the same spectrum as any other organization - the fanatics, the fence-sitters, and the "I'll go along with anything/anyone" types.

I used to get in trouble with management a lot because I told 'em the hard facts when they asked me. A lot of times the facts didn't agree with what they wanted. I told 'em, "My job is to tell you the facts, whether or not you act on them is up to you".

It's the same way with the MMM crowd, or any other anti outfit.

Give it your best shot - all they can do is ignore it. You're no worse off for trying.
 
Lurkers turn into actual Members often...
Most new members have Lurked for weeks to even Months.
One Utah Lurker turned member waited almost a YEAR!

I know a couple good TFL members who have jobs in Federal Law Enforcement. And I am honored that they are here. FBI, ATF... I dont care. I know they are on our side.

I also get emails every week from lurkers who wanted to get an opinion off their chest.
Dragontooth is one recent Lurker turned Member. Of course he was Family before he registered...
We have a couple lady members that converted through a concerted effort to enlighten Rosie O'Donald's forums. Talk about a tough crowd.

TFL has an effect. It's made a huge difference to a lot of people.
 
One of our strongest reasons why our cause of gun rights is so strong, is that it does not have its roots in public opinion and is not only a one party issue in politics. I can't tell you how many "Union" democrats are pro-RKBA. We don't all have to agree on other political issues, because RKBA stands alone.

Regards,
MP
 
Hear hear, Freeman.

I, for one, am an example of a anti- lurker turned pro-RKBA member. TFL was not the only guiding light in my conversion, but it was a strong influence. I don't know how many long-time pro-RKBA folks understand the depth of the stereotyping we undergo, but I'm here to tell you, it's deep and prevalent. TFL was a big force in my life to open my eyes to the true meanings of 'open-minded' and 'prejudice' and how those terms applied to my own perceptions.

It's this stereotype we must fight. TFL is on the front-line of that fight, and we shouldn't forget it. Like Oatka says, when you post: "keep an eye to the bleachers". You are being watched, and what you say and how you conduct yourself here IS GOING to influence the perceptions other's have of our entire movement. Those people will in turn pass their observations on to others; the more negative the observation, the farther the repercussions.

I'd like to extend a heartfelt thanks to everyone whos cool-headed and reasoned speech here was observed by me, personally, and helped me to come to the understanding I have. That understanding is being communicated to others now, through me, from you. Keep it up.


- Gabe
 
Gabe-
I think I can speak for all the Staff when I say that your words alone guarantee TFL at least another half year of trying...despite the personal time drain on many of our Staff volunteer's; depite the attacks by the pro-criminal crowd; despite the sniping by the "You're too PC...Free Speech is about my right to speak in any manner I please in any venue I choose" crowd.

We thank you.
Regards-
Rich Lucibella
 
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