Lubes for bore and wad.

P

Pond James Pond

New member
Given that many shooters extol the virtues of this lube or that, wads or no wads I have a question about what I might use if I get into BP.

Firstly, I bought some 20ga paper cut-outs that I can further trim. Would they make suitable wads? I also want to know if giving them a quick squirt of Ballistol would be suitable?

Secondly I have heard of people putting lube over the front of the projectile (ie the bit that will leave the muzzle first. Would plain old Vaseline work for this?

Would that also work as a chain-fire preventative?

(thinking mainly in terms of revolvers)

Before people start recommending this home-made lube or that over the counter lube, please note that there is next to no dedicated BP paraphernalia on sale where I live. Any such goods must be bought online from other countries, so over the counter stuff takes longer to get, and is quite expensive. Secondly, the home-made stuff requires what are household names in the US but completely alien to me here.

For example the popular filler, Cream of Wheat: What the heck is that?! I have never laid eyes on it. There may well be a European market equivalent but I don't know what it is...

So... cardboard with a hint of ballistol? Vaseline over the roundball?
What do you think?
 
Cream of Wheat:** What the heck is that?!
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Forget it. Use plain old ground corn meal (if filler is needed).

You said something about trimming a 20ga (.61 caliber) for use. what are you shooting ?

If a rifle, no wad is needed/used. Just a cloth patch (spit dampened... no special lube needed.)
If a pistol, no wad is needed either. Just vegetable shortening smeared over the chamber mouth



**Grießbrei (Semolina)
 
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what are you shooting ?
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Well... nothing as yet. :o

I am trying to build a knowledge and understanding of BP shooting technique in case I ever take the plunge into BP. A gun that I really like the look of is the revolving carbine style.

I had seen YT vids where someone put a wad over the powder first. In others there was lube smeared over the cylinder mouth once loaded up.

So what about Vaseline, then? Could that also work? (Given Estonian cooking traditions "veg shortening" may not be that common. Perhaps Margarine spread is a similar thing)
 
Don't use Vaseline, since BP fouling will make tar out of that pure "Petrolatum"
Use a vegetable shortening (Crisco, Trex, Flora White, Palmin Soft, Het zoete magazijntje,
De leukste taartenshop, or Cookeen), just plain old Lard (best).... or olive oil mixed with
beeswax to thicken it to hard butter consistency.

Wads are not needed (or wanted) in revolver-type BP firearms
 
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Great, thanks... wads will be one less thing to factor in and lard shouldn't be hard to find in a country where even the breakfast cereal seems to be pork-based!! :D
 
The thing about Crisco etc. is it gets runny in summer heat. I use a wad under the ball lubed with olive oil. If you do use an over ball lube don't fill the void between ball and chamber mouth. That's too much and will blow all over the gun and make a greasy mess.
 
pond

From this and other posts, it seems that you are thinking of a revolver carbine, which for loading purposes would be a revolver. Minimally, you would just need a proper sized ball and a propellant.

However you will find many variations of what else you need. I suggest doing a web search for geojohn as well as searching here for reasons concerning wads and chainfires. If you did want to use wads they can be made from a wool felt hat. My thoughts are similar to geojohn's on wads and chainfires.

Three important conditions to keep aware of when shooting BP are, possible hangfire or misfire where the firing is delayed or the ball doesn't leave the barrel, the chainfire, and causing a real fire if your surroundings are dry and flamable and your wad ignites something. You need to be prepared for any of those things to happen along with everything else each time you shoot! I constantly remind myself.

I can appreciate your situation with limited access to materials. Would you cast your own lead? That is another thing. But don't let any of these things stop you from the experience. At least give it a try.
 
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I can appreciate your situation with limited access to materials. Would you cast your own lead? That is another thing. But don't let any of these things stop you from the experience. At least give it a try.
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Thanks for the search pointers.

If I ever get into it, I thinking casting for BP is probably one of the easiest types to get started on. It's just pure lead, after all. No need for finding and mixing in this metal or that. That said, I have a source for round-balls and conicals if needed.

If I find a place that allows it (i.e. has BP available for on-range consumption, it could be worth having a go. It certainly has piqued my interest!
 
The proper revolver way is to have a round ball slightly larger than the chamber .Seating the ball then will cut a thin ring of lead from the ball sealing the chamber from flash over !
put lube over the ball to provide lubrication to the bore.Veggie oil is hydrogenated to form a grease such as Crisco or Margerine . [ finally they admit that hydrogenated oil is bad for you but butter is not !!! ] anyway Crisco doesn't give guns heart disease !
Usually a cardboard disc isn't required.
 
Never fearful of going against the grain.....

....I must open this post, as I frequently do, by reminding y'all that I am not a purist, not a competitor, not even a frequent BP revolver shooter. (About sixty rounds per month in the season.) There are plenty of folks who post here who are more knowledgeable and hence better able to provide evidence.

Some time ago (maybe two years) I ask the question, "Can someone provide tangible evidence that supports the use of mutton tallow, over lard?"

My thought was that at that time, mutton tallow was (in southeastern VA) much harder to get and much more expensive than lard. So if lard works just as good, why not use it?

There were plenty of responses including some very compelling rationale from some very accomplished shooters.

But in the face of all that, in my mind the jury was still out.

So I tried a one on one comparison and found that I, with my limited experience, knowledge, technique, and standards, was not able to detect a difference. Apart from the fact that the mutton tallow I used was a bit thicker than the lard and hence necessitated a slightly different mix, the two different lubes worked essentially the same for me.

I only mention this because of Mehavey's post regarding lard.

Note that Mehavey is from VA as I am and consequently the logistics path for his lard is likely the same as mine. You go to the food store, (any food store) and pay a little north of a buck a pound for it.

I acknowledge that there is a difference between lubes made from lard and lubes made from MT. I also acknowledge that for some, that difference is enough to shape their decision. I am the last person in the world to tell someone else to do something for my reasons.

For me, I can make a completely satisfactory lube from lard.
 
I've made lube from Crisco and I've made lube from mutton tallow.

Both worked fine.

I made the mutton tallow lube per the ordnance manual recipe of 3 parts beeswax to 1 part tallow. I was surprised at how well it kept fouling down in spite of its very waxy consistency. I make my Crisco/Beeswax lube at a 50/50 ratio and as a result it is far more gooey. I always thought you needed a gooey lube to keep the fouling soft, but when I made the tallow lube I shot off like 20+ rounds without loading issues and feel like I could have gone on indefinitely, using a traditional style minie bullet with 3 lube grooves.

Steve
 
Steve,

I was not aware of a recipe for mutton tallow that high in beeswax but I can see how it would work well.

My Mutton tallow recipe came out at half and half BW to MT.

Lard recipe was 2:1 BW to Lard

Crisco recipe is old and I gave up using it before I started using BW.

At that time is was roughly two to one wax rings from under toilets to Crisco. (That is very inexpensive lube!) Gave it up because I just could not get it stiff enough.
 
I was not aware of a recipe for mutton tallow that high in beeswax but I can see how it would work well.
Click to expand...

There are two ordnance manual recipes, one is 3:1, and the other is 8:1. I cannot remember which is older and which is newer.

Steve
 
Steve,

Is that the recipe for lube pills?

I need to make it so that it will smear into the chambers after the ball and not run all over the place when the temp is 95 degrees and the pistol is hot from just being fired.

I also use it in cartridges (BP) for revolvers and .45-70 rifles. (Lyman lube sizer)

With that high concentration of beeswax I bet it smells nice.
 
Is that the recipe for lube pills?
Click to expand...

No, this was the ordnance manual recipe for the lube that bullets like expanding balls were dipped in.

I find it too stiff for over-ball lube in revolvers.

Steve
 
stupid forum software.
Tried to quote the entire post. Then change font and color to answer each question. Go to submit says message is too short. Need more than two characters. Hell there must be 3000 characters in the entire response.

so now have to do the response in the OLD archaic way of EARLY word processors.
Cut and paste each of his questions and then include a response under each one. what a pita!
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Given that many shooters extol the virtues of this lube or that, wads or no wads I have a question about what I might use if I get into BP.

Firstly, I bought some 20ga paper cut-outs that I can further trim. Would they make suitable wads?

Wads and patches are two separate things. patch is cloth for a round ball shot from a single shot pistol or rifle,whether rifled or smooth bore musket. way too big for a .44 caliber revolver.
Wads are normally cut from 1/8" felt. sometimes lubed sometimes not.

I also want to know if giving them a quick squirt of Ballistol would be suitable?

Can't say for sure ballistol will work or not, but probably not, and why waste money on exotic oils. Most lubes are thick. Like bore butter or thicker still when home made, depending on what it is being used for and the ambient temperatures.
No Vaseline will not work. one: it is petroleum based. BP and petroleum based oils most times do not mix well.
Many people make there own lubes (as I have told you before) from Beeswax and lard (tallow).
besides Crisco (vegetable shortening) and vaseline are way too soft and will "blow" out of the chamber when the prior round(s) are fired.
Also animal fats (lard / tallow) seem to do a better job of keeping the fouling soft.
Also if you are going to use a soft or liquid lube between powder and ball, you need a "wad" of some material to block the migration of the oil / lube into the powder and causing it to not ignite properly if at all.

Secondly I have heard of people putting lube over the front of the projectile (ie the bit that will leave the muzzle first. Would plain old Vaseline work for this?

As above and before a no on the vaseline

Would that also work as a chain-fire preventative?

probably not as vaseline is a "oil" and is flammable

(thinking mainly in terms of revolvers)
Before people start recommending this home-made lube or that over the counter lube, please note that there is next to no dedicated BP paraphernalia on sale where I live. Any such goods must be bought onlie here.

As I have mentioned to you a couple times before, Beeswax and lard (tallow) is about the simplest and best homemade lube you can do. And there should be plenty of sources there for both. Most food stores stock the lard/ tallow on the shelf with the cooking oils. Start with three tin cans about 4 oz in size. melt beeswax in one and lard in the other one. then scoop out equal amounts of both and blend in the third can. I normally do 1 tablespoon of each. If too stiff add 1 table spoon melted lard, blend with the first mix. continue till you get what you like.
Every body will have their favorite ratio.

For example the popular filler, Cream of Wheat: What the heck is that?! I have never laid eyes on it. There may well be a European market equivalent but I don't know what it is...
ne frhome-made stuff requires what are household names in the US but completely alien to me here.

Cream of wheat is a instant breakfast cereal

Many people seem to think they need a "filler" over the powder and under the projectile, when using a reduced powder load, to increase their accuracy.
I have never felt the need to do that. I have dropped to 20gr loads in all my 44's and never noticed a decrease in accuracy out to my normal range of 25 yds.
Normally I load 30 gr of powder (BP Pyro or 777)

And yes, I sometimes fo carry my BP revolver for self defense. I trust it as much as any modern gun I have.

And of course this is just my opinion on things. But been shooting BP for 35 plus years. Take it for what it is worth.

The rest of his post didn't "copy" to my word processor.... my mouse acted up
 
Not really pertinent to this discussion but....

The word "schmootz", (alternate spelling - "schmutz") came to me from my Grandfather, William "Brick" Shomper (RIP) who was a barber in southeastern PA Amish country (Berks, Bucks, and Chester County) at a time when the last step for every mail haircut was to apply a small amount of (he called it) "hairgrease". We knew it as "Brylcream" apparently still available (but only the Lord knows why). The application process was "schmootzing".

Then my second cousin, (Hawken, 22-250, and .308 and a very similar heritage to my Grandfather.), collector and restorer of vintage Chevys, used the word to describe what he did with grease on the roller bearings when he was rebuilding a transmission.

Come to think of it, the father of my thankfully-ex wife schmootzed jelly on toast. He was also heavily Pennsylvania Dutch.

So schmootzing the chambers in a BP revolver is just the right thing to do.
 
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