I have been using the RCBS Carbide 3 die set for years . Was getting a bulge every once an awhile so I decided to change things up alittle , I'm not loading quantity 50 per week . Here's my new system but never used lube with carbide dies . Sizing with the carbide die , new Lyman neck expanding M die , Do I Lube when expanding an flare ? With the carbide I didn't .
Lube Question on 45ACP
- Thread starter cw308
- Start date
Lubing before you work the metal .easier on you or the metal and dies !
For those who are new to carbide dies -- You can wear out carbide !! I have always washed cases after removing primer Then lightly lubed the case . Used in an outdoor range the cases will always attract sand due to remaining lube on the case !!
For those who are new to carbide dies -- You can wear out carbide !! I have always washed cases after removing primer Then lightly lubed the case . Used in an outdoor range the cases will always attract sand due to remaining lube on the case !!
mete
I wet tumble my brass , remove the fired primer first , clean and size . With rifle I use lube sizing F/L also inside the neck , I'm using the expander ball . So when expanding the 45ACP without the carbide die with the M expander die do you use lube and remove the lube after expanding an flaring ?
Chris
I wet tumble my brass , remove the fired primer first , clean and size . With rifle I use lube sizing F/L also inside the neck , I'm using the expander ball . So when expanding the 45ACP without the carbide die with the M expander die do you use lube and remove the lube after expanding an flaring ?
Chris
Chris: I use the same setup as you, except I don't wet tumble.
I have a large Ultra Vibe and I do approximately 1500-1800 cases per session.
I have never used lube with the M die. I say do what you are comfortable with and try both ways and see what works best for you.
You can do a few each way to make your determination.
With my carbide dies, I lube about every 5th case, but not religiously.
I have a large Ultra Vibe and I do approximately 1500-1800 cases per session.
I have never used lube with the M die. I say do what you are comfortable with and try both ways and see what works best for you.
You can do a few each way to make your determination.
With my carbide dies, I lube about every 5th case, but not religiously.
I've never intentionally lubed the interior of a straight walled case. I use Hornady one shot spray and occasionally some lube might get inside the case mouth but it doesn't make any difference in the long run. I've never heard of a carbide die set having a carbide expander. I'm pretty sure the only thing carbide in the set is the small ring inside the sizing die.
I have the Lyman M expanders in a couple of calibers and NOE expanders in a couple of calibers and never use lube with those expanders.
reddog81
Your probably right , I thought when it was listed as a Carbide set of three all were carbide , the expander an flare plug isn't doing much . I would think the seater with the taper could be carbide . I'm doing to go without lube , if it feels alittle rough then maybe I'll use alittle , I rather not. Thanks for your input .
Chris
Your probably right , I thought when it was listed as a Carbide set of three all were carbide , the expander an flare plug isn't doing much . I would think the seater with the taper could be carbide . I'm doing to go without lube , if it feels alittle rough then maybe I'll use alittle , I rather not. Thanks for your input .
Chris
what makes it a carbide die set is that the set contains a carbide sizer die. Always been that way.
Carbide is very hard, more than enough to size pistol cases, its biggest advantage is that it has a low coefficient of friction with the cases, so lube isn't needed. That has always been the selling point of carbide sizer dies, not needed to lube the cases. Cases do need to be clean, or you could have issues.
They don't do a better job than steel sizers, they do the same job, easier (no lube, or lube clean up). Usually the carbide is a ring, cemented into the sizer die body. If your press can be set up so the shell holder contacts the carbide, it can crack and break. Avoid this.
Lubing the brass and using a carbide sizer doesn't hurt anything, I just don't see the point of doing both for normal pistol reloads.
Carbide is very hard, more than enough to size pistol cases, its biggest advantage is that it has a low coefficient of friction with the cases, so lube isn't needed. That has always been the selling point of carbide sizer dies, not needed to lube the cases. Cases do need to be clean, or you could have issues.
They don't do a better job than steel sizers, they do the same job, easier (no lube, or lube clean up). Usually the carbide is a ring, cemented into the sizer die body. If your press can be set up so the shell holder contacts the carbide, it can crack and break. Avoid this.
Lubing the brass and using a carbide sizer doesn't hurt anything, I just don't see the point of doing both for normal pistol reloads.
I don't use the M-die but would never lube the inside of my 45acp cases . I've not check in quite awhile but did get .002 to .004 bullet set back every time my 1911 chambered a round . It made no difference how much crimp I had . It drove me nuts until I heard enough people say on multiple forums to stop worrying about that small a set back . If the insides were lubed who knows how much set back I'd get .
44 AMP
Years back I shot mostly handgun , then I got into benchrest . Now in the cold months I stop benchrest until the temp is over 50 . I shoot once a week indoors 45ACP 50 rounds . For some reason all my pistol dies are carbide . When they are not carbide I went back in my thinking for sizing rifle brass . I always clean my brass before sizing . Thanks for answering .
Chris
Years back I shot mostly handgun , then I got into benchrest . Now in the cold months I stop benchrest until the temp is over 50 . I shoot once a week indoors 45ACP 50 rounds . For some reason all my pistol dies are carbide . When they are not carbide I went back in my thinking for sizing rifle brass . I always clean my brass before sizing . Thanks for answering .
Chris
cw308,
Please keep us informed about your experience. Most of us clean pistol brass in a vibratory tumbler and occasionally load new bulk brass. Vibratory-cleaned cases almost always have traces of carbon left inside, and this acts as a dry lube. New bulk brass has a thin layer of some kind of wax or oil, as you can tell from the fact it doesn't tarnish sitting in a box, even for a decade or more, so it has light lubricity, too. So all the fellows who don't apply lube are not necessarily completely without lubrication. They just don't add more.
The pin tumbling will pretty much eliminate the carbon and wax and oil and anything else that might be on the case. So you will have a true zero lube piece of brass. If you feel them hanging up in the dies, like sticking when you withdraw the case from the expander die, that is likely to be the issue. It has been reported before by some members. If that occurs, I would consider using a dry lube. Just dip the case mouths into a little motor mica and tap the excess off and drop the cases in the bin to be reloaded. It shouldn't take much. Graphite powder works, too, but it a little messier.
Please keep us informed about your experience. Most of us clean pistol brass in a vibratory tumbler and occasionally load new bulk brass. Vibratory-cleaned cases almost always have traces of carbon left inside, and this acts as a dry lube. New bulk brass has a thin layer of some kind of wax or oil, as you can tell from the fact it doesn't tarnish sitting in a box, even for a decade or more, so it has light lubricity, too. So all the fellows who don't apply lube are not necessarily completely without lubrication. They just don't add more.
The pin tumbling will pretty much eliminate the carbon and wax and oil and anything else that might be on the case. So you will have a true zero lube piece of brass. If you feel them hanging up in the dies, like sticking when you withdraw the case from the expander die, that is likely to be the issue. It has been reported before by some members. If that occurs, I would consider using a dry lube. Just dip the case mouths into a little motor mica and tap the excess off and drop the cases in the bin to be reloaded. It shouldn't take much. Graphite powder works, too, but it a little messier.
I've used an M die but for my reloading, especially lead bullets, I prefer a regular flare/taper in the case mouth. I don't get any crooked seated bullets, and the "unexpanded" first 3/16" does not swage my softer lead bullets. My jacketed bullets slip right in with a "normal" light flare. (I flare every case I reload, how much depends on the bullet, anywhere from a very slight taper, mebbe .005", to .040"-.050" for fat bullets)...
I vibra-tumble my fired brass in corn cob to clean 'em up enough for the dies.
I then lube, size/decap, and flair.
I then wet tumble with ss pins to get 'em all nice n shiny.
For the record, the main reason why I lube - even though I use carbide dies - is because I know I'm going to wet tumble. I figure, lubing the cases only takes a few seconds and it will be washed off afterward in a process I am going to perform either way.
I'm glad I lube my cases. Lever effort is greatly reduced and that's gotta be a good thing.
I then lube, size/decap, and flair.
I then wet tumble with ss pins to get 'em all nice n shiny.
For the record, the main reason why I lube - even though I use carbide dies - is because I know I'm going to wet tumble. I figure, lubing the cases only takes a few seconds and it will be washed off afterward in a process I am going to perform either way.
I'm glad I lube my cases. Lever effort is greatly reduced and that's gotta be a good thing.
You shouldn't need to lube when just adding the flare. The flare shouldn't be very big. Just enough so you can sit the bullet in and have it stay there.
Mind you, you're adding more unnecessary steps too. None of which have anything to do with tumbling.
"...Was getting a bulge..." From what?
Mind you, you're adding more unnecessary steps too. None of which have anything to do with tumbling.
"...Was getting a bulge..." From what?
Unclenick
Will let you know how it goes with squeaky clean brass . Believe me I once had too little lube on a case when it jammed in the first stroke in a brand new Redding S type bushing die . Only happens once . After I answer these posts I'm going to start . Wish me luck .
Chris
Will let you know how it goes with squeaky clean brass . Believe me I once had too little lube on a case when it jammed in the first stroke in a brand new Redding S type bushing die . Only happens once . After I answer these posts I'm going to start . Wish me luck .
Chris
Last edited:
Nick_C_S
I wet tumble only , pop the primers first , does a good job in cleaning the pockets . If I feel resistance I'll add alittle lube , don't mindanother cleaning if I have to . Want things to go trouble free . I'm retired so I have the time . Thanks for answering my post.
Chris
I wet tumble only , pop the primers first , does a good job in cleaning the pockets . If I feel resistance I'll add alittle lube , don't mindanother cleaning if I have to . Want things to go trouble free . I'm retired so I have the time . Thanks for answering my post.
Chris
T.O'Heir
I'm trying a new die , the Lyman neck expander and flare more like a step to help better alignment when seating the bullet , I was getting a bulge at the base of the bullet on one side , I'm using the right seating plug but two sometimes three out of 50 I was getting the bulge . The M die sounds like it will solve the problem .
Chris
I'm trying a new die , the Lyman neck expander and flare more like a step to help better alignment when seating the bullet , I was getting a bulge at the base of the bullet on one side , I'm using the right seating plug but two sometimes three out of 50 I was getting the bulge . The M die sounds like it will solve the problem .
Chris