Low SN Rock Island 03

troutcreek

New member
Hello,
I need some advice.
I have a low SN Rock Island 1903 Springfield rifle that’s been sporterized. I’m well aware that some of these actions had heat treatment issues along with subsequent failures and for that reason I haven’t shot the rifle for over 30 years. Prior to that I shot it with cast bullets and probably fired 1000 rounds through it.
My question is now that I’ve decided not to shoot the rifle. What should I do with it? Seems kind of a shame to break it up but I’m tired of moving it around my workshop. Do the barrel and parts have any value (understanding that it’s been sporterized)? Any suggestion would be appreciated. I’m about to get the cutting torch out....
Best regards,
TC




 
Sell it to someone who collects Springfields on a not-necessarily-to-shoot basis, and who knows and accepts what they're getting and why.

Alternatively, these guys...

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWJHDMgKWWvOsdyRF3HPVEw

...have tested a number of firearms including old military types deliberately to destruction. If you want your Springfield out of circulation to avoid an inadvertent detonation in the face of a subsequent owner but you also want it to have a more noble end than the humble cutting torch, and it's not too much trouble to get it to them, that's a possible option.
 
I'd put it back in original condition (as much as possible) and make a lamp out of it. That would go great with my US Surplus Rifle Collection.

But that's just me. Wife says I'm a bit weird when it comes to my old surplus stuff.
 
.

I'd just weld the bolt's safety lug to the receiver bridge, with the bolt closed on an empty chamber.



.
 
You ask if the receiver & parts have any value, and the answer is definitely yes.

Advertise it for what it is and make it clear you're selling it as a non-shooting item. There is a price at which someone will purchase the rifle.

I see no reason to either cut or weld the thing.
 
I had one in original G.I. condition. Did not do my research, as I wanted a shooter. I did put maybe 10 rounds of G.I. surplus through it, with no ill effect.

Eventually I sold it at a gun show to a person I believed to be a licensed dealer, or at least very savvy about these things. I emphasized the low serial number, and he did not care. Bought it nearly 25 years ago for $150.00, sold it for $225.00 if I remember.

In original condition, people will collect the low-serial numbers Springfields in their own right, just to have for historical purposes. Of course, a sporterized version is not in the same category. I think the heat treatment issue could be overrated though. If you have put a 1000 rounds though it, and are happy and careful with your reloads, I would continue to roll with that. Sounds like you have a useful gun. If you are determined not to shoot it yourself, perhaps you can sell it to a like-minded reloader who would accept the challenge and concerns (as you must do if you reload anyway).
 
Will a 03A3 action fit?

Gents,
Thank you for the response. I guess Musher hit the nail on the head. Is it ethical to sell this rifle? I’m pretty much an honest guy and I’ll state what the rifle is. But will that always be the case?
Is it possible to change out the action with a later 03A3? I’d be willing to spend a few dollars to make this rifle a shooter. Any leads on actions that will fit?
It has a 2 groove barrel but even so it was an exceptional cast bullet rifle.

Kraig, I’m inclined to agree with your wife.....

Thanks again for the thoughtful response.
TC
 
Cast Bullet Rifle

A-F,
Thanks for the response. IMO since the rifle has been sporterized it's collectibility has been compromised. That said it brings back a time in the late 50's and early 50's when working folks built sporters out of surplus rifles. Many, many valuable rifles were re-worked as deer hunting tools. Too bad from a military collectable point of view. My father built an 03 A3 that was used for many years until he could afford a Remington 700.

When I came into possession of this rifle I knew that low sn rifles were problimatic but I didn't know the cutoff date. Since this was a time prior to forums, I sent a note to the NRA asking advice. A couple weeks later I got a nice response pretty much saying the same thing as you.

In the mean time I've gotten older and more conservative. I won't shoot the rifle anymore with the existing action.
Thanks again,
TC
 
FWIW, paid $150 for a low number 1903 Springfield about 3 years ago at a local gun show. It had been sporterized simply by shortening the military stock. It was obvious to me the rifle had been well used. I restored it to its original condition and replaced its broken extractor collar. Its year of manufacture was during WWI and there are around 3 documented receiver failures in year receiver made. Barrel on rifle is dated in the late 1920s....receiver is pinged telling me its been re-arsenaled.

I shoot the rifle in our private ranges monthly military rifle target competition. I could use my mint condition Smith-Corona 1903A03 or one of my mausers in the competition. Heck, even own a Madsen rifle I could use. But I love the rear sight on the low number 1903. I usually finish in the top 4 of the shooters in the competition with my low number. Always have at least one shot that is the so-called flyer that kills my aggregate score.

Mind you, I shoot only low pressure IMR Trail Boss powder loads in my low-number Springfield. Velocity of my reloads is around 1300 fps with 125 or 135 gr Sierra match king bullets. Once you figure out the bullet drop with Trail Boss loads and adjust the rear sight properly, the 1903 Springfield can be quite accurate at 100 yds.

By the way, if I remember correctly, general consensus is the magic number that ends the low number 1903 Springfield serial numbers is 875,000......mine is in the 650,XXX range. Can't recall what the cut-off serial number for a Rock Island 1903 is.
 
Is it ironic or what? I would rather have one '03 than five 700's. Even though the 700 is a modern design, and I have owned a few and they work just fine, they are what's the word? Oh, cheap, that's it.

The '03 is CRF and solid everything. No drilled out bar stock, fused alloy bolt, or washered recoil lug. I don't own any '700's anymore. They started out as an economical alternative to the Rem 721 and Win MDL 70.
 
they also aren't liable to blow up in your face.

I have a low number springfield that I shoot from time to time. it's my choice and I'll accept the consequences if it ever gives way. some people think I'm nuts, other don't.
 
they also aren't liable to blow up in your face.

I have a low number springfield that I shoot from time to time. it's my choice and I'll accept the consequences if it ever gives way. some people think I'm nuts, other don't.


The problem with low number 03’s is that it is impossible to non destructively detect the “good ones” from the “bad ones”. The Army covered up all the problems with low number 03’s, and the general public only became aware of the issue with these older rifles in the mid to late 30’s when they were being replaced with Garands. Hatcher had the report of a 1927 Board that recommended scrapping all 1 million single heat treat receivers, but Hatcher never revealed the percent of defective 03’s in inventory, which to make a useful recommendation, the board would have had to put in the report. It is my guess that the percent was unacceptably high, even by 1927 standards of safety. Hatcher always portrayed the Army as a wise and benevolent entity, releasing the number would have kludged any future relationship with the Army because it would have shown that the Army, is in fact, amoral. I consider the whole decision to retain low number 03’s in service unethical, the Army decided, for cost reasons, to keep them in service. The cost of replacing them was too high, the Army would have had to justify the scrapping and replacement to a skeptical Congress, and the cost of rehabilitating injured Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines came out of another Government agency’s budget. Thus injuring servicemen did not cost the Services anything, and no one cared about the injured party’s pain and suffering. There is a report in a 1917 Arms and the Man Magazine of one Soldier who lost half his face in a low number blowup. At the time, all the way past WW2, the decision makers in the War Department considered his lifetime injury was worth less than a $40.00 rifle .


So what’s your face worth?


I don’t consider shooting the things and seeing if it blows up in your face an acceptable way of screening out the good from bad. I read an article in Rifle Magazine where the author hit low number receivers, holding the receiver in his hand, and the nylon faced hammer 18” in the other, and every one of the receivers shattered. Years before, the same author shattered a low number sitting at the kitchen table, just whacking it with a 5/8” combination wrench. I also read on a forum that the pre WW2 Marine Corp struck their low number receivers with steel hammers, and those that did not shatter, were considered useable. I have not gathered the courage to do this to my one low number receiver, but, before I every shoot the thing, I will do it. I will start with a 5/8” combination wrench on the receiver ring and work my way to the right rail. If the receiver shatters, then it was too dangerous to use. If it does not, it could be a good one.

Still, a good one is a relative term. Given the poor process controls of the era, combined with the low grade of steels, these antiques, even the good ones, are not as strong or safe as a WW2 era rifle, never mind something made today.
 
I too have a low number RIA 03 in excellent condition. It was rebarreled during WWII so I figure it would have blown by now if it is over hardened. I have shot it a few times with military surplus ammo with no ill effects. Some of the blown up Springfields were due to ammo problems as a known fact. Mauser 98s can be broken at the rails if hammered. The narrow/thin sections become harder during heat treatment as I understand. I have seen pictures of most any modern action that has blown up. I may never shoot my low # RIA again, idk. But I do feel the problem is a bit overblown-pun intended.
 
Many low numbered '03s were re-barreled during WW2 and may have been used extensively, but that doesn't negate the issue with the receivers. These "brittle" receivers are a problem because if a pressure spike does occur while firing one, be it ammo related, obstruction, etc., they don't stretch at all...they reportedly fly apart in pieces. If you use one then not only are you subjecting yourself to peril, but those around you as well.
 
I would keep it ans shoot it, handloading lower pressure rounds.

You said you shot it with cast bullets, I would say there is minimal risk to keep doing that, if you want to just have a plinking gun.

It would also be interesting to work something up using ~90gr .308 pistol bullets, I think Hornady and Sierra both make them.

You can also make reduced loads using H4895, Hodgdon has a paper on it.
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf
 
My favorite 7x57 is on RIA #195178. When I was younger & dummer I put a lot of .30-06 ammo through Springfield #6843. I refused to test fire a low no. Springfield that had the bolt face opened up and the original barrel chambered to .308 Norma Mag twice in the early & mid 80's, and have seen the same rifle on a table at gun shows recently. On examination, it never did look like anyone was actually shooting it.
 
I guess I'll be the first to post one the A3 question.

it will fit. I have used 03 parts in unison with an A3 receiver while waiting for replacement parts and have fitted an A3 stock to a 1903 Mark 1 in order to make an A4 copycat so it should have no issues whatsoever.
 
Even loading low pressure ammo with those SHT receivers won't necessarily keep them from letting go. One report was of a blowup with a load of a round ball and nine grains of Bullseye, what the owner called his "rat shooting load." The pressure probably was not high but the fast burning pistol powder caused a fast blow to the bolt and that was enough to shatter the brittle receiver.

It is like a heavy soft drink bottle. You can lay it down and stand on it, even run a car over it and it will not break. Yet even a light blow from a hammer will shatter it.

Jim
 
Back
Top