Lots of Unpleasant News for Gun Owners in New Budget

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Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I haven’t had an opportunity to validate all these claims yet; but if even a few are true it basically represents a massive surrender at a time when NRA A-rated congressmen are a majority in the House and Senate and the President was a keynote speaker at the last NRA convention.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...t-risk-thanks-to-republicans-in-congress.html

A short summary of losses:
Dickey Amendment prohibiting CDC from using federal funds to promote gun control repealed.

$50 million in grants doled out to Sandy Hook Promise. I’m sure that won’t be used against us.

Fix NICS reauthorizes the social security disability recipients reported to NICS mess that Congress just recently de-authorized by reinstating language from the 2007 NICS Improvment Act.

Reporting requirements removed from Fix NICS Act - Since 2010, the annual reports mandated by the original NICS bill have not been done. If not for these reports, we wouldn’t know how many people were investigated who were not prohibited people or that in 2010 out of 76,000 denials, only 4,732 cases were even investigated and only 62 prosecuted. As originally drafted, Fix NICS required these reports be made again. That is now not going to happen apparently.
 
Bartholomew Roberts

May I ask where I can find those numbers regarding NICS? That's some pretty potent ammunition for those who claim the system is broken and how NICS is busted.

What's the point of having this system if they are not going to investigate those who get flagged by them? Now the majority likely are false alarms, but the whole point of this system was to ensure some level of responsibility when it comes to selling firearms (Let me state, that, yes, NICS is a joke, and I don't like it. However, we likely will never win an argument with the general masses for its removal. So just picking and choosing my battles)
 
I find the removal of reporting provisions exceptionally disturbing. It puts us back to "trust us, we're from the gov't."
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
$50 million in grants doled out to Sandy Hook Promise. I’m sure that won’t be used against us.
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That's NOT what the article says.

The money will be doled out to schools under the STOP School Violence Act, which was "designed by" Sandy Hook Promise. The organization does not get the money, at least not directly.
Another part of the spending bill provides $50 million for the STOP School Violence Act, which will provide schools with training in how to cope with attacks and how to identify violence-prone individuals. Despite President Trump’s push to encourage schools to arm teachers and staff, the bill expressly forbids schools from using any federal money to do just that.

Sandy Hook Promise designed the STOP School Violence Act, tailoring it to the contracts that will be given out. Unfortunately, Sandy Hook Promise advocates extreme gun control measures and promotes such measures to teachers and students.
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From Sen. Orrin Hatch's website, linked in the article:
The bill permits grants to fund evidence-based programs and practices to:

  • Training to students, school personnel, and local law enforcement to identify and warning signs and intervene to stop school violence before it happens;
  • Improve school security infrastructure to deter and respond to threats of school violence, including the development and implementation of anonymous reporting systems for threats of school violence;
  • Develop and operate school threat assessment and crisis intervention teams; and
  • Facilitate coordination between schools and local law enforcement.
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IOW this does not seem to be an anti-gun law on its face, although IMHO there are certainly grounds for criticizing it: it doesn't jibe with POTUS's promise the arm teachers, and it's basically a pork-barrel handout for schools, some of which will inevitably waste the money on fatuous nonsense, or uselessly burn through it trying to cut through federal red tape.

More seriously, however, I have a strong hunch that "identify and [sic] warning signs and intervene" is code for "arrest unpopular or marginalized students for minor infractions that school administration and parents should be dealing with." :rolleyes: FWIW one of my great fears post-Parkland is that some schools are going to effectively create a school NKVD that will funnel kids into the criminal justice system simply for expressing politically undesirable opinions—such as "I like guns." ("Trotskyite!") :mad:
Spats McGee said:
I find the removal of reporting provisions exceptionally disturbing. It puts us back to "trust us, we're from the gov't."
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Indeed; IMHO the reporting requirements were the best part of Fix NICS. :(
 
Kimio, that is direct from the last such NICS report in 2010:
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bcft10st.pdf

carguychris said:
That's NOT what the article says.
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Well, I was attempting to summarize. Though, I’ll admit that is an opinionated summary. A great deal of government is involved in directing grant money to programs similar to those. You then staff those programs with your loyal followers so they have a place to land when your party is out of power. It helps to name those programs “Care for Orphan Kitten Veteran Heroes” or something similar so that if the other party attempts to cut off funding for your group, you can raise heck in the news.

In this case, the programs being funded have basically already been created by contractors tight with Sandy Hook Promise. It is a classic case of writing an open bid so that only one contract qualifies - the one you already picked. In my view, that money will be used to keep anti-gun people employed and doing anti-gun work.

It is particularly galling to see “pro-gun” legislators shoveling the money to them. At least I’ll have the small comfort of knowing they’ll braid those dollar bills into a rope to hang the same legislators that funded them.
 
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Bartholomew Roberts said:
I’ll admit that is an opinionated summary. A great deal of government is involved in directing grant money to programs similar to those... In this case, the programs being funded have basically already been created by contractors tight with Sandy Hook Promise. It is a classic case of writing an open bid so that only one contract qualifies - the one you already picked.
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That could certainly be so, and it makes sense in a cynical way; I must confess that I have paid little attention to what SHP has been up to lately.
Bartholomew Roberts said:
It helps to name those programs “Care for Orphan Kitten Veteran Heroes” or something similar so that if the other party attempts to cut off funding for your group, you can raise heck in the news.
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LOL, I'll have to use that one again... :D
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Dickey Amendment prohibiting CDC from using federal funds to promote gun control repealed.
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I don't think this is accurate. The CDC is allowed to use federal funds to study firearms-related issues, but they are not allowed to use federal funds to advocate for gun control. That was true last week, and it remains true with the new budget.
 
What is this?

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/...ort-050115.pdf
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That's the FBI NICS Transaction Data. It is just NICS operational data. For investigation reporting purposes, it only tracks NICS data up to the point the FBI refers the denials to ATF for further investigation. It is one of several reports used to compile the BJS report I linked to above.

So, we know for example that there were 90,895 denials in 2014 and 2,511 firearms approved by NICS to prohibited people. We don't know what ATF did with any of those referrals; but I'm thinking that if the numbers were good, they'd be happy to share them.
 
For whatever it's worth, the National Shooting Sports Foundation is in favor of the new legislation. I received the following from them by e-mail today. It seems to be a press release, so I think I'm okay to reproduce it here in its entirety:

NSSF Commends President, Congress on Gun and School Safety Laws​

NEWTOWN, Conn. — The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industries, today commended President Donald Trump and Congress for signing into law the omnibus legislation containing Fix NICS and Stop School Violence provisions. Both legislative measures were called for by President Trump and supported by NSSF as measures to help ensure firearms remain beyond the reach of prohibited individuals while respecting the rights of law-abiding firearms owners and working to keep children safe.

“The legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by President Trump is a true achievement to making communities safer while respecting individual rights,” said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF senior vice president for government and public affairs and general counsel. “This law will enable the FBI’s background check system to work as intended, a longstanding goal for the firearms industry, as well as providing resources to states to improve mental health and intervention services critical to enabling authorities to proactively address potential threats in their communities.”

NSSF thanks Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) for his leadership to reach across party lines and gain support from 77 senators to make true changes that make communities safer while respecting constitutional rights.

“Fixing the background check system will help save lives and reduce the likelihood of what occurred in Parkland and Sutherland Springs from happening again,” said Sen. Cornyn in a press release.

Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) praised legislation for the measures to work with states to ensure all disqualifying mental health and criminal records are uploaded to the FBI and resources are available to intervene to prevent tragedies witnessed in Florida.

“This bill fixes and fully funds the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background System (NICS), a critical step to keep guns out of the hands of people with a criminal history,” Speaker Ryan said in a press release. “It implements key provisions of the STOP School Violence Act to fund Department of Justice grant programs that help keep schools safe. Overall, the bill provides more than $2.3 billion in new funding for mental health, training, and school safety programs.”

NSSF launched the FixNICS® campaign in 2013 and worked successfully to reform laws in 16 states, resulting in an increase in the number of disqualifying mental health records in NICS to nearly 5 million, from about 1.7 million, a 200 percent increase. NSSF previously endorsed S. 2135, the Fix NICS Act by Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), which topped 77 cosponsors. NSSF also endorsed H.R. 4909, the Stop School Violence Act, which overwhelmingly passed the U.S. House of Representatives. Both bills were merged with the omnibus legislation and are now law.

The legislation includes several other crucial provisions to important to hunters and recreational shooting. NSSF supported the inclusion of an additional $10 million for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to aide in reducing administrative backlogs. The legislation also affirms the policy that the Centers for Disease Control is enabled to study firearms, but that any study must adhere to longstanding restrictions of advocacy. Increased access to public lands for hunters and recreational shooters was included.

NSSF worked with Congress to include the Making Public Lands Public Act as a provision. This initiative ensures a portion of funds are permanently made available from the Land and Water Conservation Fund for land acquisition to ensure the public has access to the more than 38 million acres of isolated public lands either through ownership of private properties or geographic boundaries. NSSF is also proud to support the inclusion of the “Hunt Unrestricted on National Treasures” (HUNT) Act in the Omnibus, which would improve access to federal lands for hunting, fishing, and outdoor recreation by directing federal public land management agencies to identify federal lands where hunting, fishing, and outdoor recreation are permitted but where access is unavailable or significantly restricted.

About NSSF
The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the trade association for the firearms industry. Its mission is to promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. Formed in 1961, NSSF has a membership of more than 12,000 manufacturers, distributors, firearms retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's organizations and publishers. For more information, log on to www.nssf.org/.
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Well, as Sen. Paul pointed out earlier, they had approximately 24 hours to parse a 2,300 page bill.

At this point, I'm skeptical that either John Lott or NSSF has a good grasp on what is in the bill affecting gun rights. I know in my legal career, I've been caught several times by tiny details embedded in otherwise innocuous text. Just recently, I was reading through a statement by a government agency in which they normally affirmed they had met a particular statutory requirement. I'd read probably a hundred briefs from this same attorney and agency and the language is always the same, so it is easy to skim. Except in this one case, they changed "we did" to "we may have done."

Unforunately, the flip side of that is it is difficult for me to verify whether Dr. Lott or NSSF is correct, as I too lack the time to parse a 2,300 page spending bill.
 
Well, as Sen. Paul pointed out earlier, they had approximately 24 hours to parse a 2,300 page bill.
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True -- and that should be illegal from the git-go. It's another Obamacare -- "We'll just have to pass it to find out what's in it." That's not statesmanship, that's ... well, I don't know what it is. Legislative malfeasance at best, and IMHO bordering on legislative terrorism.
 
IMO, there should be a page limit on every bill submitted to the President for signature/veto, and that page limit should be in the single digits. I can't help but think that the people who built this country would double over and instantly vomit if they saw a stack of paper a foot high and realized that everything written therein had all been passed and signed as one single law.
 
Well, having had a chance to look into this further, Dr. Lott's claim about the Dickey Amendment being repealed has zero merit. The bill basically says "CDC is not prohibited from researching the causes of gun violence." It doesn't remove the prohibition on advocacy.

Hopefully the remainder is also overhyped.
 
JohnKSa said:
IMO, there should be a page limit on every bill submitted to the President for signature/veto, and that page limit should be in the single digits. I can't help but think that the people who built this country would double over and instantly vomit if they saw a stack of paper a foot high and realized that everything written therein had all been passed and signed as one single law.
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If they didn’t personally actually read it out loud to a witness, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote on it. That addresses the length of it and their understanding of it.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Fix NICS reauthorizes the social security disability recipients reported to NICS mess that Congress just recently de-authorized by reinstating language from the 2007 NICS Improvment Act.
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So SS recipients who say need their daughter to mail a letter for them are now going to be labeled as mentally ill again and have their gun rights taken away?
 
So SS recipients who say need their daughter to mail a letter for them are now going to be labeled as mentally ill again and have their gun rights taken away?
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I don’t think that a person like that is going to go on a shooting rampage. So what would be the point of disarming them. Unless they are dangerous, I think even someone that has some mental deficits has the right to defend themselves. Just because someone can’t navigate this online world, doesn’t mean they should have rights stripped. That’s the problem with the mental angle. Some have issues, but aren’t dangerous.
Old people with POAs aren’t all murderous .
 
So SS recipients who say need their daughter to mail a letter for them are now going to be labeled as mentally ill again and have their gun rights taken away?
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The Obama plan to report certain social security recipients to NICS was de-railed by a Joint Resolution of congress; specifically J. R. 40.


There's lots of fake news about the omnibus budget bill.

Fix NICS is contained in Division S, Title VI, Page 1982 of the omnibus budget bill. After perusing Fix NICS twice as passed i can find nothing concerning the reporting of social security recipients to NICS.

http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20180319/BILLS-115SAHR1625-RCP115-66.pdf
 
LogicMan said:
So SS recipients who say need their daughter to mail a letter for them are now going to be labeled as mentally ill again and have their gun rights taken away?
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As explained in the linked article, it doesn’t bring back the administrative rule; but it does return the authority of agencies to make those kinds of administrative rule as part of the mandatory reporting to NICS requirement. Again, haven’t been able to verify that part yet and it looks like there is reason to be skeptical of some of the claims.


thallub said:
Fix NICS is contained in Division S, Title VI, Page 1982 of the omnibus budget bill. After perusing Fix NICS twice as passed i can find nothing concerning the reporting of social security recipients to NICS.
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Fix NICS reauthorizes the 2007 NICS Improvement Act, which is where the problem started. The problem is you can’t very well penalize an agency for failing to report prohibited people to NICS and then say they aren’t authorized to determine which of their clients are prohibited people. The argument is that this will allow this or a future administration to reinstate regulations Congress recently struck down.

And if the House and Senate become split in 2018, then Congress will be unable to correct any bad interpretations
 
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