Loser rule sucks...

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noobwitha22

New member
Here in NJ ranges have a rule/law, not sure which it is yet, that states you need two people to rent guns. I kind of understand but it is frustrating as I am a loser. I have very few friends and family that I talk to not many of which are interested in shooting. What makes it even harder is the days off I have do not match the days off the couple of friends I have that will go shoot.

What this means for me is I have to wait to see if I receive my FPId before I can go and rent the guns I want to try before purchase. All I want to do is test out some guns and plink bullet holes into some innocent targets.
 
OK... I'll bite.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you saying that if you want to rent a gun, you have to have a friend with you that will also rent a gun or vouch for you? Does and FPID card allow you to rent a gun without a friend? Never heard of that before and makes no logical sense to me.

I would say that sounds like some stupid individual range rule and not a "law", but why? To what end? Seems like the range would be loosing money on rentals with a rule like that.

I don't mean this to sound rude, but this is nothing that people in most states experience. Please explain more since you are not really asking a question but only posting a rant (it appears).
 
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Joining a gun club is not going to happen any time soon. I am not good at socializing and money is tight. Hopefully in the future when money is not so tight.

I posted the question if it is a law or rule on a NJ forum, so I am waiting for a response. Not sure if this is some way to make more money or an insurance thing. As here in Jersey everything revolves around having insurance. I know people that live 5 miles+ and 500' higher than the nearest water but still have to have flood insurance, thanks FEMA for that.
 
Have you actually tried to rent one and been turned down or is this just something you heard? Have you tried a different range? I would suggest you will get better info by talking to the range officer instead of an internet forum.
 
jag2 said:
Have you actually tried to rent one and been turned down or is this just something you heard? Have you tried a different range? I would suggest you will get better info by talking to the range officer instead of an internet forum.
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The info is posted on their websites and the couple I have visited have posted rules as well. I also contacted one to see what guns they rented and one of the things that was stated to me in the email was that I would need at least one other person with me to rent any gun.
 
If there is no foreseeable future in getting friends in NJ, moving to Arizona, Texas or Idaho and getting a job there may solve your tight $ issues and let you shoot at low cost ranges or free public lands for free.
 
This is a very common range policy in many places, and I've never seen it be a law. The idea is to prevent suicides. [Edited for clarity: The range wants to prevent suicides from occurring at their facility, I don't think anyone expects this rule to prevent suicides in general.]

When I lived in WA I personally knew of three different ranges that had had people come in, rent a gun, and then off themselves in the shooting bay. This rule tries to prevent that: to rent a gun they require you to either bring your own working gun (not necessarily to shoot it, you just have to have it with you) or have a friend with you.

Think about it: If someone has their own gun they don't need to go to a range and rent one if they're going to commit suicide. Also, most people don't commit suicide with a friend around, so that's the reason for that part of the rule.

In the ranges I referred to, no suicides have taken place since the rule was put into effect.
 
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Not the exact same but I've been told an nonresident cannot rent a gun in Illinois. Seen that at 3 different ranges.
 
TXAZ said:
If there is no foreseeable future in getting friends in NJ, moving to Arizona, Texas or Idaho and getting a job there may solve your tight $ issues and let you shoot at low cost ranges or free public lands for free.
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I think after all these years living here in NJ I have planted some deep roots. So moving too far away is not going to happen.
 
Theohazard said:
This is a very common range policy in many places, and I've never seen it be a law. The idea is to prevent suicides.

When I lived in WA I personally knew of three different ranges that had had people come in, rent a gun, and then off themselves in the shooting bay. This rule tries to prevent that: to rent a gun they require you to either bring your own working gun (not necessarily to shoot it, you just have to have it with you) or have a friend with you.

Think about it: If someone has their own gun they don't need to go to a range and rent one if they're going to commit suicide. Also, most people don't commit suicide with a friend around, so that's the reason for that part of the rule.

In the ranges I referred to, no suicides have taken place since the rule was put into effect.
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Ok this makes the rule understandable.
 
I'll venture a guess what is going on.
I cannot verify source/facts,but on the radio a few days ago I heard 2/3 of USA firearms deaths are suicides. Actual numbers? How about we just agree its a significant number.

It hits the news occasionally that a person goes to a range,rents a gun,and ends their life.

I don't have to agree with the rule to understand it. The thought may be that a person who comes in with another person is less likely to do a range suicide.
The assumption may be the partner would steer the troubled person toward help.
I'm sure a range suicide is horrible in many ways for a range. It may end the business. Not arguing either way,just understanding.

Our OP.....I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a counselor. You seem to be saying you are pretty isolated. I don't know that your isolation will make a good argument toward an exception to the rule.

I'll take your word for it that you feel you lack social skills. Skills can be learned.
If you have no money,no resources,and no idea where to turn.....Some will say a Church. That may or may not be a path for you.
There is another resource in just about every town. Generally you can find them in the classifieds. Pick a 12 step program. There are different ones for different needs.
If you can't go shooting...fishing can be good. Or go to the shelter and let some dog choose you.
Good luck!
 
HiBC said:
I'll venture a guess what is going on.
I cannot verify source/facts,but on the radio a few days ago I heard 2/3 of USA firearms deaths are suicides. Actual numbers? How about we just agree its a significant number.

It hits the news occasionally that a person goes to a range,rents a gun,and ends their life.

I don't have to agree with the rule to understand it. The thought may be that a person who comes in with another person is less likely to do a range suicide.
The assumption may be the partner would steer the troubled person toward help.
I'm sure a range suicide is horrible in many ways for a range. It may end the business. Not arguing either way,just understanding.

Our OP.....I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a counselor. You seem to be saying you are pretty isolated. I don't know that your isolation will make a good argument toward an exception to the rule.

I'll take your word for it that you feel you lack social skills. Skills can be learned.
If you have no money,no resources,and no idea where to turn.....Some will say a Church. That may or may not be a path for you.
There is another resource in just about every town. Generally you can find them in the classifieds. Pick a 12 step program. There are different ones for different needs.
If you can't go shooting...fishing can be good. Or go to the shelter and let some dog choose you.
Good luck!
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If the rule is there to try and help someone committing suicide at a range, then I do understand. It is just frustrating as I wanted to do some shooting before I got my PFId.

I didn't think I was saying I was isolated. I Just never did well with socializing but I have friends. Part of what you may think is isolation is from being broke. A few years ago a company I worked for closed it's doors. I was unemployed for a year, it really sucked my meager savings and I need to borrow money from friends and family to just pay my rent. I am starting to see the light at the top of the hole.

Sorry didn't want this post to be a real rant or whoa is me. Just kinda wanted to understand the rules in place at the ranges here in NJ, ok and a little bit of rant.
 
At my local range in SoCal that rents guns you must have a friend with you; but they will consider the gun you brought with you as a friend. I often rent guns there along with my "friend", a Bersa Thunder 380!

The reason is to prevent persons from renting guns to commit suicide.
 
FITASC said:
...if you're bent on suicide and have a friend willing to help you, how does this rule prevent that?
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In every State it's a crime (generally manslaughter) to help someone commit suicide.
 
FITASC said:
So, if you're bent on suicide and have a friend willing to help you, how does this rule prevent that?
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I can't tell if this is a serious question, but I'll answer as if it is.

Of course it wouldn't prevent that situation you describe. But be serious here, how often does a person have help from a friend? I'll bet it occurs less than 1% of the time. Probably a lot less.
 
FITASC said:
So, if you're bent on suicide and have a friend willing to help you, how does this rule prevent that?
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The rule doesn't prevent suicide, come on now. Lets think realistically...

I believe the thinking behind the rule is that if someone has a friend or family member with them they may not be willing to do it in front of them. Yes could it still happen? Of course. But I am sure the ranges want to do what they can to prevent it from happening in their facilities, especially if others can get hurt or killed.
 
noobwitha22 said:
I didn't think I was saying I was isolated. I Just never did well with socializing but I have friends. Part of what you may think is isolation is from being broke. A few years ago a company I worked for closed it's doors. I was unemployed for a year, it really sucked my meager savings and I need to borrow money from friends and family to just pay my rent. I am starting to see the light at the top of the hole.
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I'm glad things are starting to go better for you -- I've been there, and it's no fun.

If you can afford range fees and gun rentals, taking a basic handgun class shouldn't be too much of an additional stretch. You can probably find one where the instructor provides several guns for participants to try out. You'd get some practice time, get to try a few guns (even if they're not the exact models you'd like to rent, you'll get some possibilities and a sense of how different calibers work for you) -- and we can all benefit from training, no matter what our level of experience is.

And heck -- you might even meet some people to shoot with. :)
 
Evan Thomas said:
I'm glad things are starting to go better for you -- I've been there, and it's no fun.

If you can afford range fees and gun rentals, taking a basic handgun class shouldn't be too much of an additional stretch. You can probably find one where the instructor provides several guns for participants to try out. You'd get some practice time, get to try a few guns (even if they're not the exact models you'd like to rent, you'll get some possibilities and a sense of how different calibers work for you) -- and we can all benefit from training, no matter what our level of experience is.

And heck -- you might even meet some people to shoot with. :)
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Thank you. I have been contemplating taking a class. I have been checking out classes and there are some basic courses then they advance up in both what you learn and how much they cost. One class which seems reasonable to me is $125 individual for 2 hours. It goes over the what the different handguns there are and ammunition and how to load and reload safely. Not sure what else since that is what info is on the website.

Other classes like those that are NRA based are twice that or more. I need to research the classes more and see which ones will be worth the time and money. My friend who is a state police officer wants to take me out and teach me safety and well just to shoot some of the old guns he has collected. I would like to learn how to shoot accurately, it is what I am really interested in.
 
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