Looking to start reloading, some questions (some specific to Lee presses)

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steven6282

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Hello everyone,
I hope this is a good forum to come to post these questions. It was the first result on google when I searched for reloading forums and it looks to have a bit of activity hehe.

Anyway, I'm looking at getting started in reloading. The primary reason I want to start is because I've got a 308 that I'm pushing out to 1000 yards with and want to be able to load my own bullets and be sure of matched loads and such. But there are other things I'd like to do as well.

The caliber I fire the most of is 9mm. I'd say I probably fire around 5-7k rounds a year of 9mm. Next would be 223 / 5.56, probably around 2-3k of this caliber per year. 38 special around 1 to 2k rounds a year (some 357s mixed in also). And 308s I don't really have a yearly estimate on since I haven't had the rifle for long, but I'd wager it's going to be around 800 to 1200 rounds a year.

So, what I'm looking at right now is a Lee Precision 50th anniversary single stage press kit, with a Lee Precision Ultimate 308 die set. That would let me do 308s on a single stage press but I don't think I'd want to do 9mms on a single stage. With the volume of 9mms I'm looking at the time investment on a single stage just seems to long to be worth it. So, I'm also considering a Lee Precision Load Master 9mm kit.

This is where the questions start. If I got this Load Master progressive, I've read on some websites that it can be used as a single stage press as well. Would it makes sense for me to just buy this one press then and a few turrets / shell plates to easily switch between calibers and use it as single stage when doing my 308s (is it even necessary to do the 308s single stage)?

What all would I need to change on the load master to go from say 9mm to 223 since I'm going from a pistol to a rifle round there? I see that there are both small and large primer feeders, but I'm not sure which is used on which caliber and which comes with the 9mm kit. I know I'd have to change the dies (probably just change the entire turret with a turret that has 223 dies already in it), and the shell plate. But not sure about the brass feeders / primers.

I also see the Lee Safety Primer, and it talks about a required Auto Disk Riser, that disk riser doesn't come with the load master that I can tell, does that mean the Load master doesn't use the safety primer? If not, what is different about the safety primer that makes it better? If it does come with the safety primer, then I assume I can just buy the small / large safety primer feeder set in order to have both sizes and not have to worry about the auto disk riser?

Further I've read about this in various places, and it's even mentioned in the instructions for the load master, it talks about using a resizing die with the decapper removed at the priming station for a better alignment. Are the decapper tools easy to remove if I buy another die for this? Also, it says in the load master instructions that it recommends using a lee universal decapper or larger caliber sizing die with decapper before the priming station if doing this, I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this or how it's even supposed to work with a larger caliber die?

If I could do my 308s and everything in the load master then I'd just get the 9mm kit and additional turrets, shell plates, and dies for the other rounds. The only thing out of the 50th anniversary kit that I'd really use from looking is the press (assuming I couldn't use the progressive for everything), the primer feeders (as it looks like it comes with 2, assuming a large and a small), and the powder feeder (but one of those comes with the load master too).

Right now this is the shopping list I came up with for getting started:

  • Frankford Arsenal Quick-n-Ez Case Tumbler (will buy walnut lizard bedding for media)
  • Frankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator (I'm sure I got a 5 gallon bucket around)
  • Lyman Case Prep Multitool (I'm honestly not sure exactly why I'd need this if press is doing the depriming and all but it's only 20 bucks and recommended so I figured it can't hurt)
  • Lyman Universal Trimmer with 9 pilot multi-pack
  • Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-Ez Impact Bullet Puller
  • Frankford Arsenal Reloading Scale (mostly cause I'd rather have a digital scale than the one that comes with the anniversary kit)
  • Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook
  • Lee Precision Ultimate .308 4 die set

And then whichever press kit I get. Am I forgetting anything that I should be looking at getting when starting?

I know if I get the single stage kit, I'd also have to get some more bushings since it only comes with 1.

Another thing I'm a little confused about with the dies. If I look at the Lee Deluxe 9mm 4 die set, it talks about having a powder through expander die, as well as the factory crimp die. The Load Master 9mm kit doesn't appear to have either of those die. Are they not necessary?? Also, I can't tell if that Lee Precision Ultimate .308 4 die set has a powder through die or not?

So I guess the main thing I'm trying to decide right now is if I can get by with just the progressive press if I get it first. I know the setup and everything on it is more difficult and people often recommend a single stage for beginners, but I'm a fairly technical person and I'm pretty confident I can figure the progressive out. I've watched a few videos on it already and I think I've got a firm understanding of how it works. I just don't want to waste money buying a single stage press if I'm going to end up getting the progressive shortly after anyway and not need the single stage anymore, not to mention the wasted money on dies that come with the load master if I had already bought a set to use on the single stage.

Thanks in advance for any information / advice you can give!
 
Welcome to the board!

Now, Let's throttle this back a bit. You are new to reloading, correct? I highly suggest you do not get all this...stuff...yet. :eek:

Get a Classic Cast turret press, a few other basic reloading tools and read, read and read as much as you can how to reload first. It would be irresponsible to suggest a new motorcycle rider start on an R1, no?

I've reloaded thousands of 9mm, 45, 223, x39, 30-06 and 38 Special on...a Hand Press.:p

Here's a more down to earth shopping list...

Turret or single stage press
Beam scale (NOT digital)
ONE caliber Die set (preferably pistol)
Dial calipers
Plastic bowls
Reloading manual(s)
Kinetic bullet puller (you'll make mistakes)
Universal reloading case tray
Hornady Unique case lube (I'm biased)
Components ie primers, correct powder, cases, bullets

That should get you started. I don't recommend you start with rifle as there are a few extra weird steps that take practice to get right.
 
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i'll second the motion for the lee classic turret. watch these videos there are also lots on youtube for your viewing pleasure.

next i would recommend you buy "modern reloading 2nd edition" by richard lee if you are going to buy lee products,he toots his horn a bit (but hey, it's his book and his company) but he does and excellent job (i think) explaining the reloading process and how his gear works, excellent.

i would definitely hold off on buying anything until you have a better grasp on what you want to do and the gear you want to do it on. browse here lee knowledge base tons and tons of information straight form the horse's mouth
 
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll take it into consideration. But the reason I'm looking at more advanced stuff than that is because I'm an impatient type and I don't like wasting money on something that I know I'm going to be wanting to upgrade within a couple of weeks of having it hehe :)

Hopefully someone can answer my questions above specifically so that if I decide to move forward with it, I have the information I'm seeking. Yes I am new to reloading, but my philosophy with this and everything else is why start with training wheels if you are capable of just hopping on and riding without them? =P

I skip the "training wheel" phase in just about every new hobby I get into.

In response to the suggestion above though I have to ask, why a beam scale and not a digital? Digitals are faster and easier to read are they not? Why would I not want to get a tumbler, media separator, and case trimmer? Without those I'm not going to be able to use brass to many times cause it's going to get to dirty or to long and I won't be able to do anything about it.

And specifically in reply to your motorcycle analogy, it would really depend on the rider. If they were experienced with other things like say they race cars and are familiar with speed and how to be careful, then sure throw them on an R1. The basic mechanics of a motorcycle aren't going to change just because it's a little faster off the line. If the person is capable of being responsible and easing into the power of the R1, there is no reason to tell them to waste money buying a bicycle first (or a low end motorcycle if you prefer).
 
I'll vote for the Lee turret press also... Love mine!!
For pistol loading the only thing I touch is putting a primer in, and a bullet. Goes very quickly for pistol loading.
For rifle, just take out the rod that rotates the turret, and use as a single stage press. (you could probably get the 223 with the turret rod in, and load like pistol.)

Instead of a kinetic puller, I got an RCBS collet bullet puller. Love this thing!!!

Have fun, be safe!!

Read, read, read....
 
I have had experience with the Lee Challenger breechlock and RCBS presses. I recommend the Challenger due to low cost and it just works well. Single stage is best to learn on as there is just too much to keep track of on a progressive for a new reloader to deal with. Get the best scale you can afford so you don't blow yourself up. I use and recommend the RCBS 505 beam scale. I have a digital too but most low cost ones are Chinese junk that won't hold calibration. With the beam scale you can know your charges are accurate. If you later want a turret press, you can always still use the Challenger to size bullets.
 
Impatience + reloading = disaster. Reloading, while basically simple is not a task to be rushed. A slight misstep can cause dangerous conditions for you and your gun. I agree with Chris' post about equipment and the learning process, slow down, be a bit more reasonable about your ambitions (or find a source of bulk factory ammo).

If you consider learning a process step by step "training wheels" and not for a man, prolly no one here can help you. If you're so intent on jumping from thinking about reloading to advanced progressive ammo machine manufacturing then ignore the help here and just read the direction that comes with the machine. I don't mean to sound like a Richard, but what you're doing is like someone with "Band-Aid" knowledge jumping into brain surgery. Sure you can do it, but will everybody survive? :D

To new reloaders I suggest reading at least The ABCs of Reloading to see what reloading is all about, and what equipment suits your reloading needs.

Go slow, double check everything, and enjoy...
 
Start with loading manuals, many loading manuals, then more loading manuals. Not to scare you off, but when reading the manuals, it all seem's
confusing at first but it will click in your mind. And, you will learn by mistakes
too... we all do/did and will again.

10-4 with the Lee Classic Cast 4 hole Turret.
 
I just started reloading myself. The list of items I have purchased in a month goes way beyond your average beginner kit. I spent $2,000 on a Redding turret, quality dies, new bench, 2 tumbler systems, Charge Master, Case PrepCenter and then some, $2,000 on a progressive from Dillon and about $1,500 on primer, brass, powder and bullets.

Sure I'm an extreme example, but I do believe that you can get into a hobby all-in. I made up my mind before I started buying all this and I know that I'll stick with this hobby. If I had to start half assed I'd lose interest quickly. But that's just me. I did the research and reading part tho. Had been lurking around 5 years before pulling the reloading trigger.

That being said I suggest buying quality products right away. Based on your list you might want to look into the Forster Co-Ax press as a starting point. Just m2c.


PS: passed Basic Rider Course on a weekend, went to DMV and Duc dealer on Monday. Started on a 1198 SP ;)
 
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Patience is your friend.
Read the suggested manuals and you will get a better idea of the process.
That may change your equipment plans.
My needs may be diffrent than yours, but I load both rifle and pistol on my classic cast turret, and I haven't felt the need to replace the press after a year. (3 pistol calibers, 7 rifle)
For rifle you will need a few more tools/accessories than pistol.
If you are planning to load precision rifle, at the minimum you will need something to drop over 40 gr powder charge in the 308.

You may want a powder measure as well as a trickler.

But in any case, you will learn more about what you want to do by understanding the process involved, and what options as far as what equipment will help get you there. (Whether lee, forster,lyman, hornady,rcbs,dillon,redding, or others.)
 
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Thanks again for the responses.

I guess I'm not going to get the answers to my specific questions above though. I really appreciate everyone's time and knowledge, but I really was not looking for suggestions on how to start small. I've already watched plenty of videos on single stage and progressive presses. There is nothing going on in a progressive press that confuses me really. I can say for certain there is not to much going on for me to be able to follow properly.

I only had a few specific questions about some things that I can't find directly mentioned anywhere (like small versus large primers, and the safety primer plus Auto disk riser). Those aren't "confusing" points, they are just static knowledge points that I need to know from somewhere.

I'd be ok doing my 308s on a single stage press, but the volume of 9mms I need is way to many to do on a single stage press for me. That is where the impatience comes in, not in being careless and rushing through it, but in knowing that I could be doing the 9mm rounds 5 times faster if I had a progressive press. The only reason I was looking at the progressive only is because as I said I read that the Lee Load Master could be used as a single stage press. So I figured if it could be used as a single stage press, there would be no reason to spend the 100 extra dollars on having a single stage press as well.

McCarthy: Yeah I was considering buying higher quality right away, normally it is something I would do. But as of right now it's a money constraint that has me looking at the cheaper Lee products. Most reviews say they work well enough for years. I'd probably start with them to stay in my budget for now, and later on if they start giving me problems or I have a bigger budget I'd upgrade to a higher quality press.
 
I skip the "training wheel" phase in just about every new hobby I get into.
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You might want to reconsider that for this hobby. :)

I only skipped one "noob" recommendation from those more experienced and that was to start with a single stage press. My first press was a progressive Lee.

Been into this now a couple years loading only 9mm and find myself being scared of leftover early loading samples I came up with.

In hindsight....best advice so far is read, read, read. And have at least two manuals. And read them. :D
 
the volume of ammo you state your shooting doesn't warrant a progressive, the turret press would suit your needs better but if you're heart is set on it knock yourself out.

...only had a few specific questions about some things that I can't find directly mentioned anywhere (like small versus large primers...
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thats why you need a reloading manual all of that IS mentioned in it, directly. different calibers require different size primers. i.e. 9mm, .38 small pistol, .223 small rifle, .308 large rifle.

the safety primer plus Auto disk riser
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you don't need the riser if you're using the load master. if you go the the lee website and look around all the questions you have will be answered directly from the manufacturer. there is no question you have that can't be answered in the FAQ's
 
Since you have lots of questions, I'm hoping I answer them all:

First, for the Loadmaster. You will need a separate turret and die set for every caliber, and likely a separate shell plate. If you plan on doing large and small brass, you'll need both case feeders, and likely both priming systems. The Lee safety prime is for the Classic Turret, not the Loadmaster. The powder drop riser is for the Classic Turret so the powder can cycle past the primer system.

On the Loadmaster, you can put the universal decapper in station one, then the sizing die with the decapping pin removed in station two. The powder drops in three, then bullet seat in four, and crimp in five.

To go from 9 to 223, you'll need separate die sets, shell plates, and case feeder. Also, an extra turret will allow you to set the dies and leave them. You'll also want the 9mm crimp die, assuming you buy the Loadmaster 9mm kit. You'll need the Lee Dohble Disc kit for dropping rifle charges too. Do yourself a favor and get digital tools - scale, caliper, etc.

I'd go with the Loadmaster from the "get go". No sense in buying the Classic Turret if you're going to upgrade shortly after. Just pay attention, go slow at first, and you'll be fine.
 
I skip the "training wheel" phase in just about every new hobby I get into.
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A classic cast turret isn't 'training wheels'. If this is your attitude, by all means start with a progressive and make a tiny mistake that blows your fingers off. Don't say we didn't warn you.
 
I loaded nearly 4,000 rounds on a Lee Classic Turret press last year. The advantage is it is not as complicated as a full progressive. Change over is quick and easy. The disadvantage is the # of cranks on the handle is 4 Xs the number needed on a full progressive.
 
I picked up a used Pro 1000 before I loaded round 1. I knew it would probably not be best for a beginner so I picked up a Breechlock Challenger kit. Used that for a few years loading .40 and.45. I don't need to load thousands of rounds per week, so when I recently decided to load a bit faster than the single stage, I picked up a classic turret. I cannabalized the pro 1000 and took the pro auto disk, changed out the arm and added a spring, and now I'm cranking rounds out as quick as I need to. Some day I may set up the pro 1000 (it is set up for .223) but for now, I'm happy with the classic turret. I'll keep the single stage, you never know when it will come in handy.
 
No offence, but I've seen this "start at the top" mentality many times, and often see failure on a grand scale, but it's your choice.;)

Start with a minimum of three reloading manuals. Lyman 49th, and Hornady's latest and the manufacturer's manual from whichever bullet you prefer (Barns, Swift, and Norma make excellent bullets and manuals that cover their products).

Don't bother with the Lee press/kit. While Lee makes good entry level tools and equipment, that's not what we're talking about here, and the Lee presses have been reported to need a bit of "tweeking" for consistent, good production. When one says "Progressive Press" one automatically thinks "Dillon". Check out their Super 1050 (Dillon refers to their presses as "reloading machines"). Not a lot of accessories to be concerned about as everything is included with this machine. It seems to be a good fit for your wants.

Again, don't bother with Lee equipment. Their dies are just considered entry level quality tooling. Foster makes premium dies as does Dillon and Redding.

Since there are better products available than Frankfort Arsenal look around for your "starting tool inventory"; Look at Thumbler's model B rotary tumbler and stainless steel pins. Or look at this kit; http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/stm-complete-package.html

For disassembling rounds, an impact tool will work, but you will want a dedicated single stage press and an RCBS collet bullet pulling dies, one for each caliber.

Lyman makes good tools but some say the RCBS Trim Mate prep station is a very good choice (no hand tools to fiddle with).


Hopes this helps your getting started...
 
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Got a couple of additional questions. I'm looking at the suggested Lee Classic Turret and considering it to start off with mainly because it looks like it's the easiest for me to do all of my calibers on a single press (although I'll still probably end up getting a Load Master for 9mms within a few months, possibly for .223s as well). So I have a few questions about it.

One, I read one place mention that only smaller rifle rounds would work with the Pro Auto Disk Powder that comes with the classic turret kit. It specifically mentioned that .308 would not work with it so I'd need to do that on an off press powder measure. What about .223? Is it small enough to work with the on press powder measure? The thing I read did mention a Lee Rifle Charging Die was needed for smaller rifle reloads, and I can pick that up as long as .223 is doable with it.

Next, I'm looking at all the die options, I understand that when using carbide sizing dies you don't have to use case lube. However I can't seem to find any full length carbide sizing dies for .223 or .308. Do they not make carbides for those sizes? The .308s I'll probably mostly be doing Neck sizing only on because they will be used in my own bolt action .308 and no one elses. But the .223s may potentially get used by my friend or something like that. I planned to get carbide dies for the 9mm and 38 special loads. I guess if carbide full length isn't available for rifle sizes it means I have to always lube rifle cases during reloading?

Lastly, I've read some mixed reviews concerning Lee's .308 die set. This is the one I'm most concerned with accuracy on because it's going to be used in a 1000 yard gun. I read one reviewer that even claimed using the Lee neck sizing only die on .308 resulted in 5 inch groups where as a RCBS .308 resulted in 3/4" groups at 100 yards. Does the resizing die really play this big of a roll? If so, what are peoples suggestions on high quality dies for .308 (assuming the Lee really is less precise or something and it wasn't just that reviewer screwing something else up).

Thanks again for all the information and suggestions.
 
One, I read one place mention that only smaller rifle rounds would work with the Pro Auto Disk Powder that comes with the classic turret kit. It specifically mentioned that .308 would not work with it so I'd need to do that on an off press powder measure. What about .223? Is it small enough to work with the on press powder measure? The thing I read did mention a Lee Rifle Charging Die was needed for smaller rifle reloads, and I can pick that up as long as .223 is doable with it.
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The Lee Powder Measure can take two stacked disks to double the size of the powder drops. You just buy the double disk kit from Lee. There are loaders who have made their own triple disk modification to the double disk kit. Just takes some longer screws.

You can also use the expedient method of double-stroking the press with the powder-charging die. Don't lose count.
Next, I'm looking at all the die options, I understand that when using carbide sizing dies you don't have to use case lube. However I can't seem to find any full length carbide sizing dies for .223 or .308. Do they not make carbides for those sizes? The .308s I'll probably mostly be doing Neck sizing only on because they will be used in my own bolt action .308 and no one elses. But the .223s may potentially get used by my friend or something like that. I planned to get carbide dies for the 9mm and 38 special loads. I guess if carbide full length isn't available for rifle sizes it means I have to always lube rifle cases during reloading?
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Bottlenecked cartridges are not amenable to carbide sizing dies, so, yes, you will have to lube the cases for full-length sizing. I a not sure about neck-sizing bottlenecked brass and carbide.

You can use a carbide sizing button to expand the neck and avoid having to lube the inside of the case neck.
Lastly, I've read some mixed reviews concerning Lee's .308 die set. This is the one I'm most concerned with accuracy on because it's going to be used in a 1000 yard gun. I read one reviewer that even claimed using the Lee neck sizing only die on .308 resulted in 5 inch groups where as a RCBS .308 resulted in 3/4" groups at 100 yards. Does the resizing die really play this big of a roll? If so, what are peoples suggestions on high quality dies for .308 (assuming the Lee really is less precise or something and it wasn't just that reviewer screwing something else up).
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I wonder if the guy was trying to sell his RCBS .308 dies?

Redding dies are reported to be be the best. But most of the cost is spent on the fineness of the finish. Certainly some is spent on quality control in the inside is part of the difference, too, but the difference in quality of the ammo produced by Lee vs RCBS vs Lyman, vs Redding vs Hornady is found mostly in the hands of the loader. The dies play some part, but 5" vs 3/4"??!!?! Unless one set of the dies is defective, I opine that there was a difference caused by the operator.

Good luck

Lost Sheep
 
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