Looking for very mild .44 Spl. load.

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dahermit

New member
I am looking for a very mild load for my S&W 696 (three inch), using a RCBS 250 SWC bullet using Red Dot, Unique, or Bullseye.

The gun is very accurate with the Lyman "accuracy load" of 6.9 Unique with my bullet, but I want something for rapid double-action shooting using that bullet (do not suggest a lighter weight bullet...it is the mold I have and want to use).

I have an old Lyman #45 manual that lists such loads...4.0 Bullseye with a Lyman 49421 bullet for instance, but none of the modern manuals go that low or use new powders that I do not have in my larder.

My questions are, if the ultra-light loads were listed in the old manuals, I presume that they were safe...then why no longer listed?

Secondly, can someone list a load using very small amounts of Bullseye, Unique or Red Dot that the have found accurate with either Lyman 49421, or RCBS 250 SWC bullets.

Please stay on subject, I know the dangers of bullets stuck in the barrel.
 
I would counsel putting a filler (cotton fluff or some such) in the case to ensure the powder is kept near the primer.

Do you have access to a chronograph? You could load down until you start getting stuck bullets and find out just how low you can go. Then boost that velocity by 25% or so and feel safer.

You specified powders, but I suggest Trail Boss as a powder that fills the case well and gives particularly soft-shooting loads.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep
 
You could seat the bullet a little deeper, to 44 Russian OAL, and use 44 Russian load data. Seating depth should be just about right to crimp over the front shoulder.
 
One theory is that lesser amounts of powder can cause increases in pressure instead of less.
Has something to do with the rate of burn being relative to the amount of powder the flame front is traveling through.
??
Recent discoveries on the subject and changes in powders might also have something to do with the differences between older and new load data.
Gotta' believe the powder manufacturers are on top of it and know what's best.
 
cast bullet loads

I would look in an older lyman cast bullet loading manual. It will give you a lot of options with a number of powders.
 
6.9 of Unique is the max load for a cast 250. You work up to that or just pick it? Anyway, 5.3 of Bullseye of the max load of it for a cast 250. 86 FPS slower than the Unique.
If you want a light load reduce the bullet weight or a light powder charge.
 
Lost sheep suggested what I would use. I've been using Trail Boss for a number of years now as a powder puff load. Works really well. It is a little dirty though.
 
What is wrong with 4 gr of Bullseye? Has the powder changed since 1967?

If you fear it has, look at Lyman 49th.
Starting load of 4.2 gr Bullseye and 429421.
 
An old target load was 5.0 grains Red Dot with a 240 L. It is was accurate and low recoil. Five grains of Bullseye also produced excellent accuracy. However you cannot push bullets much faster with these powders and that is a limitation.


4" M624

240 LSWC 5.0 grs Red Dot thrown, Mixed Brass CCI300
T = 64 °F 3-Mar-07

Ave Vel = 714.8
Std Dev = 24.35
ES = 95.28
Hign 778.4
Low = 683.1
N = 19
Accurate

240 LSWC 5.0 grs Bullseye Lot 6/20/05 Mixed Brass WLP
T = 64 °F 3-Mar-07

Ave Vel = 763.9
Std Dev = 16.18
ES = 60.94
High = 794.7
Low = 733.7
N = 28
very accurate, little powder residue

ReducedM624rightsideDSCN5067.jpg
 
When ATK took over, they re did their data using only "pistol" powders with Speer G.D. bullets. Shotgun powders that used to be listed suddenly were no longer. But if you call them, they will give you the data that is right out of the 1992 guide.

From the 1992 guide ll loads listed are max. They do not list a starting. 246 gr. LRN 5.6" barrel Win Primer

BE 4.5 gr. for 765 fps. @ 11,700cup

RD 4.3 gr. for 740 fps. @ 11,900 cup

UN 6.0 gr. for 800 fps. @ 11,700 cup
 
44 Special / 250gr LSWC / 3" barrel
Code: 
                 Wt (gr) fill (%)  vel (fps) Pmax (psi)  Burn(%)
Alliant RED DOT    4.1	  40	      600     11,521      100
Alliant UNIQUE     5.6	  42	      600     10,385       86
Alliant BULLSEYE   4.9	  36	      600     10,420       88

I'd go w/ RedDot

.
 
Last edited:
OK, say it has. The current Lyman shows 4.2 grains instead of 4.0 Whee.
Click to expand...
Rude attitude. Did it occur to you that I may not have the current Lyman manual? The latest one I have is #48, it shows no Bullseye loads for the .44 Special whatsoever so Whee yourself.
 
I would use RD for two reasons:

1) it is bulkier than BE and especially Unique and will give better case fill.

2) It burns better / more consistently at lower pressure than BE / Unique.
 
Here you go

254 Lyman/Keith 429421 cast Alliant Red Dot 4.7 698
Remarks: overall loaded length (inches): 1.575
254 Lyman/Keith 429421 cast Alliant Red Dot 5.2 742
Remarks: overall loaded length (inches): 1.575
254 Lyman/Keith 429421 cast Alliant Red Dot 5.7 796
 
Another Red Dot fan here. I used to load gallery loads for my Ruger No. 1 in 375 H&H to shoot indoors at my bullet trap. 6 grains of RD on top of a mag primer and thumb seat a .375 round ball down the neck. Just imagine the unused powder space in those loads! 1 grain of ball powder in a 44 spcl. case wouldn't have as much free space as they had, and never an ignition problem. American Select is another good powder for reduced pistol loads, as it is about the same burn rate and bulk density as Red Dot.
 
As near as I can tell, pressure jumps with underloading start in mid-case fill with rifle and slow powders, but fast pistol and shotgun powders don't seem to have a problem with it. I've shot .44 Specials loaded with soft swaged 240 grain SWC's down to airgun velocities using 2.9 grains of Bullseye in my light Charter Bulldog.

44%20Target_zpswagl2cxr.jpg


However, since doing that shooting (early to mid 80's for that old target) I have seen one report of a .308 Winchester rifle blown up by using about 10% case fill of N320, which is sort of between Bullseye and Unique in performance. So at this point I try keep mild loads of fast pistol powder about 20% fill. So, around 3.2 grains for that bullet.

Frankly, though, if I were starting a new load workup today, I'd go looking for Trail Boss powder. It's so much more bulky, and it burns so much cleaner it's hard not to appreciate it. Maybe 5 grains of that.
 
Another vote for Red Dot...

As mentioned, when Speer came under the ATK umbrella they stopped publishing their old data and went with nothing but 'Speer Bullets'...

They will indeed stand by all their old published data except Blue Dot in .357 mag with 125gr bullets, and Blue Dot in ANY .41 mag loads...

If you are a member of The High Road, this link will give you a good PDF copy of the 2004 Alliant manual:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

If not a member of THR, this link has a copy of the 2005 Alliant Manual which is the same as the 2004...The quality is not as good as the first link though:

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html
 
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