Looking for the perfect semi auto

R

Rob B

Inactive
Hello gents, this is my first post.
I want to get a new toy, since the pressure is getting high on the assault rifles, I'd like to get my last one before they go up more, or do away with them all together. Bear in mind I'm a responsible gun owner, as most are, and this will be in no way used illegally.
I'm not going to give any specifics of my wants, because I would like a broad spectrum. Lets try to keep it under $1000, besides that, the sky is the limit. Please specify brand and model or comparable clone if aplicable.
Thanks a lot for your time and patience.
 
An AR15 type clone in .223. Ammunition is cheaper than .308, but unfortunately, magazines are not. If you want to go the .308 route, then a FN-FAL. I like the M14 design, but am hesistant to recommend Springfield Armory (do a search for old threads) unless I personally inspect the receiver.

Returning to .223, Bushmaster is good and some custom builders prefer them as a basis for target rifles. Stay away from Hesse Arms. With a good lower, you can change the configuration of your rifle at whim by buying multiple uppers: Short 16" home defense, 20" competition, 24" varminter. The problem with any AR clone though is that magazines are getting expensive.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
For less than $1000 you will be happy to know your choices are many. However, with my recommendations to folks looking to enter the "military looking semi-automatic rifle" market, I tend to repeat some common denominators.

One, always buy a weapon with a NATO compatible caliber (ie, .223 or .308). Two, buy a weapon that offers an unlimited supply of after market accessories, spare parts, and interchangeable add-ons. And three, always buy from a private party...stay out of the paper trail.

This leaves you with some critical choices. Now, you could find all sorts of arguments for and against the AR-15 rifle, but most serious shooters, gun enthusiasts, militiamen, and collectors will direct you to the original Colt manufacturer of this rifle. I agree, they are the most desirable everywhere I've gone. Not only for reliability, but for resale value, parts availability, and number of accessories available, you are hard pressed to do better. You will find a second hand Colt AR-15 in 95% or better condition to come in at anywhere between $850 and $1200 (depending on pre or post ban status). But if it comes down to having a bayonet lug on a rifle, I'd pass on the lug. A flash hider is nice but not going to prevent you from accomplishing what you want to accomplish.

This rifle with proper maintenance will grow in value, and give many years of accurate, reliable service.

It's true, you could buy a Bushmaster, a DPMS, an Armalite, or any number of other Colt clones, but then...they won't be a Colt.
 
Generally speaking you have five choices; an AR15 clone, an FN FAL clone, an HK clone, an AK clone, or a Mini 14.
Each have advantages and disadvantages. The AR types are the most popular and have the most accessories, spare parts, gizmos etc. Several makes can be had for under your limit and you can always build one yourself. Plus, as Gary said, you can get spare uppers and change the configuration by swapping. There are even different calibers out there, all the way up to 50BMG (this is a single shot upper). DPMS is supposedly working on a .308 upper :). Several companies make pistol caliber uppers also.
The FN series are very robust. They were built to handle the pressures of the 7.62 NATO round from almost the outset. They are less expensive than most ARs to buy. (Century Sporters run around $700 on up in my part of the country-more as Y2K gets nearer) Mags can run as low as $7 (DSArms used). Spare parts are plentiful. Easy to put together except for headspacing. Watch out on mixing inch and metric parts. Stay away from Ishapore weapons though. They were reverse-engineered and nothing fits them very well.
The HK clones are relatively new on the market. Many don't appear to have the highest quality in manufacturing. Tolerances are off, trunions are offset or missing, etc. Plus, I believe, you still need to change out or adapt the trigger group to semi only. Probably on a par with some of the Century Sporters out there on the market.
The AK clones have about the same going as the AR clones. Available in 7.62x39, 5.56 NATO and some in 5.45x39. There are variations from entry weapons (Krinks) to sniper variations with everything in between.
The Mini 14. People either love 'em or hate 'em. Factory magazines are expensive and the aftermarket magazines are supposedly junk (according to this board and everyone I've talked to). Takes a lot to turn it into a tack driver if that's what you want. Everyone I know who owns one goes through extractors on a regular basis, though they all have older models (if they still have them that is).
I'm sure others will have more info.
 
I concur with staying with either a .223 or .308... Personally, I like the AR's, specifically Colt and Bushmaster... I would go with a Colt if this is going to be your only purchase... The fit and finish I had on mine when I purchased it was great, although I have heard of QC problems lately... But I've also heard worse QC problems with Bushmaster, so perhaps both companies are trying too hard to get AR's on the market too fast... The aftermarket parts selection for AR's is tremendous, and the flexibility seems almost endless... Depending where you live and what model, you can still get either a Colt or Bushmaster for under $1000... Personally, I would recommend a carbine in either brand...
 
fal308, could you elaborate on the different kinds of FALs? What's a Galil, an L1A1, an STG, and all that? Different or same as FAL? Also, FN vs others, etc. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited October 12, 1999).]
 
Thanks guys, you all helped out a lot.
In all honesty I was interested in the AR with a 16" barrel and colapsable stock. Then go the route of 20" barrel and a2 stock. Then go the route of different uppers,,, ie .45 and .243,,,,,, .308 sounds good as well.
Basically I have heard terrible things about the "M16" all my life. My dad was in Vietnam, and has preached it was nothing but a piece of junk to me. He says he went with the M60 to get away from the "mattel toy".
All the problems he has preached over the years, could be just introductory glitches, since they put them straight into combat with very little testing.
I'll provide a short list of some of my millitary type guns, not to brag, just to narrow the discussion.
Daewoo DR200 (.223), IMI Uzi caebine (9mm), a few AKM variants(5.45 and 7.62) and a couple of MP5 clones. The AK,s are bottom folders, so you can kind of see with the ones provided here, I like the compact models. The Daewoo is the only with a full sized stock(post Clinton). In my oppinion a rifle should only have a full length buttstock and telescopic sight if you intend to use it as a medium to longrange tool. For 200 yards and under no buttstock is fine with me.
 
Most definitely an AR-15 carbine flat-top.
First choice - Colt
Second choice - Bushmaster

I have a pre-ban Colt and a Bushmaster M4 flat top upper on order.

Expect possible quality problems from either manufacturer; however, both companies stand by their products and would no doubt resolve any issues to your satisfaction.

.223 caliber is the best choice for most shooters. Semi-auto .308 can be quite a handful.
 
Go with a colt or bushmaster flat-top. Get two post-bans for the price of one pre-ban. As far as the M-16s being a piece of trash I haven't had any trouble with mine. Just clean them once in a great while and they just keep humming along. Go with the fixed stock, unless you plan on jumping out of airplanes and such.
 
Another choice to make is a kit gun. You could buy a stripped lower, Bushmaster, Eagle Arms/Armalite, DPMS, then buy a post-ban CAR-15 weapons kit. J&T Distributing sells them for around $425 or so. Make sure to ask for the non-collapsible, post-ban CAR-15 stock instead of the A2 stock. This should be under $700.
I have a DPMS lower with a post-ban CAR-15 upper from J&T. It prints 1.5" groups at 100 yards pretty consistently and is lighter than an A2 with a 20" barrel. It was fun to build the lower; it wasn't hard at all and you'll learn more about the weapon from the inside-out.

Later,
Rich
 
A bit off topic

Rob b your dad was not the only one with this opinion, check out Col. David Hackworth in his book About Face,and he says the same mattel toy story, he preferes the M14 especialy for crakcing skull with the walnut stock something the ar would not want to do.

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
 
Rob:

Go with the AR. get one with a heavy barrel. Its an excellent rifle. Yes there was some teething problems with the AR when first issued in Vietnam, that was all corrected (some were training problems with proper maintenance). The rifle design has been in service now for 30 years. The heavy barrel variant is great.

I love my M-1 Garands, they are the greatest guns ever made in my mind but my Armalite/ Eagle Arms M15A2 is the most accurate rifle I own.

Fred
 
Futo:
The Galil is not a FAL derivative at all. It is an AK derivative, chambered in .223, and made in Israel (very nice and very expensive).

There are a couple of basic types of FAL; the metric configuration, inch configuration, and the Israeli config.

Inch versions were used by Britain and the commonwealth countries (Austrailian, New Zealand, Canada and so on). They are called such names as SLR (Britain), C1 (Canada), L1A1 (Australia), and a few more. They can be easily identified by the folding cocking handle, the pistol grip has a flat leading edge (actually a metal strap that is part of the trigger guard), the selector switch is large and flat, and the mag release is the full width of the mag well. Last thing, the bolt hold open device was disabled, but can easily be enabled (they had some crazy idea about getting dirt/sand in the action in the few seconds it would be open).

Metric FALs were used by about everyone other than the Commonwealth countries. They have a fixed cocking handle (usually round), a smooth pistol grip that slips over a post that protrudes from the gripfram, a round selector switch, and a mag release on the right-rear quarter of the mag well that is rather narrow.

Israeli FALs were used by, well, the Israelis. I'm not well versed in these, but they tend to have round wood handguards that are about 2/3 the length of the metric/inch pattern lengths. These certainly have different barrel threads than do the metric and inch types.

Ishapore FALs were made in India, without any FN support. Apparently they took the rifles that FN supplied for their adoption trials and reverse engineered them and made them without a liscence. These should be avoided.

check out:
http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/index.html

[This message has been edited by Destructo6 (edited October 12, 1999).]
 
Rob B,

These are my favorites...

-AR15 Bushmaster Shorty
e2shorty_small.jpg

-AR15 Bushmaster Dissapator
e2dissipator_small.jpg


Both have a 16" barrel...which are the shortest legal length, and are amazingly accurate. The Dissapator is heavier, but has the full site radius (this is the one I recently bought). Great weapons they are...love mine.

__________________________________________
Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
 
HK 53

or

G36K

If you could ever get one now...

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
A private person cannot buy a HK G36, even in semiauto, because the HK-company (or maybe it's parent company in Britain) has prohibited all civilian sales of G36, and they require end user certificates for rifles sold. That is the answer I got from HK importer to my country (Finland). Otherwise the importer would of course love to sell as many expensive rifles as possible since military semiautos are still legal for (selected) civilians here (permits required). So about six month ago I bought a new SIG SG550 in .223 instead, for a price of $2.000. Srange that HK did not want my money... I could have chosen a G36, but never a SL8 instead of that SG550.

Ossi
 
well since you can still buy a "loaded" M1a from springfield for just over $1200 I'd recommend that. You can hunt with it, shoot highpower matches, plink, etc. Its "overkill" for home defense because it will shoot through walls, car doors, sandbags, etc. But that is kind of its appeal too. (Say your deer dodges behind a 86 toyota celica.. you can still hit him)

If I wanted an ar-15 type rifle I'd choose the car-15 with the folding stock and 11.5 inch barrel with the 5.5 inch flash hider attached. Stock it up with orlite or thermold magazines (while they are still cheap) and have fun. Really the MOST important thing to get in an AR type rifle is a Pre-Ban lower reciver, that way you can put what EVER upper on it you want.

the flash hiders are FAR more useful than a bayonet lug and you can still legally get an M1a with one, but M1a magazines seem to me slightly more expensive than ar/m16 mags.

If your heart is set on an ak, get one in 7.62 x 39 and buy a BUNCH of quality magazines (e. german are the best) while they are still cheap. Buy a case or two of russian ammo while its cheap too. Be very careful, if your gun is NOT pre ban you CANNOT put a folding stock on it.

I'd avoid the uzi as its usefulness is limited as a long arm and a variety of high capacity pistols could fulfill its role as a handgun. (a marlin camp 9 or ruger police carbine would be FAR better than an uzi at stretching the versitiliy of the 9mm round.)

Hope this info is useful,

Dr.Rob
 
My opinion on the Best Semi Auto Ever. And nobody has said it but

M1 GARAND

in 06' or .308

from the hot jungles of Guadalcanal, The salt water and sand at the beaches of Normandy, to the frozen Korean peninsula.

From vets that I have talked to the gun goes bang every time you pull the trigger in all of those adverse conditions. From my own experience I can attest to the reliability and the Accuracy. Both Great


m1 second favorite m1a or m14 type rifle.

I just resonate with a GARAND more.

ORSO
 
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