Looking for steel guide rod for CZ 75B and a minor rant

J

Jack 99

New member
What is it about guide rods that everyone wants them PLASTIC these days? Even CZ puts a friggin' plastic rod in their guns. I don't expect EVERY part to be steel or alloy, but the GUIDE ROD! What do they save with plastic, maybe $4 or $5 per gun? Cmon', you can get away with a plastic mag follower but leave all critical and semi-critical moving parts STEEL please.

Rant out. Where do I get a steel guide rod for my CZ? Anyone have any experience shooting +P with the factory spring? Would you reccomend a spring replacement?
 
Even if a plastic guide rod saves a company only 25cents per unit, multiple that by several thousands and you'll know why they changed. Some companies like SIG Sauer have experimented with plastic gudie followers but customer demand forced them back to metal. I don't know if steel or aluminum is better than plastic, but I do know that like you I prefer metal to polymer.

Have you tried contacting www.cz-usa.com directly? They might have the old style rods in stock. If not I'm almost sure that a Tanfoglio/Witness guide rod will function in your CZ. You might ask the folks at CZUSA this question, they should know. Check www.brownells.com

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
A fellow TFLer that talked to a CZ-USA service rep told me that the plastic guide rods were put there deliberately for function, not to save cost. Supposedly, the newer guide rod reduces battering to the frame, especially when shooting hotter loads. Maybe someone else can expound on this.
 
This sounds like flak from CZUSA. I always thought it was the spring pressure and not the guide rod that controls slide force.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Hello again Mylhouse! I am the TFLer whom Mylhouse is referring too. I was alarmed by the plastic guide rod and contacted the armorer at CZ-USA. He told me that the guide rod was changed to plastic because CZ was getting complaints about slide stop pins getting broken from hot rounds being fired out of the gun. The plastic guide rod acts as a buffer when the slide reachs the end of it's travel and impacts the plastic guide rod, which is pressured against the barrel. The slide stop pin goes through the Petter-Sig style barrel "link" in the barrel. It is the slide stop pin that untimately stops the slide assembly from recoiling. In all, I find CZ-USA's explaination of the existance of the plastic guide rod believable given the way the pistol functions. I saw evidence of the slide stop pin's function firsthand when I fired 10 round of that Hirtenberger +p+ L7A1 subgun ammo out of my CZ-75B. I used the factory recoil spring when I did this. The slide stop pin had very well defined impact marks on it where the barrel slammed into it, much more well defined than when it had previously been fired with standard 9mm ammo. The CZ75B pistol has a lot of machining steps that go into manufacturing the pistol. I cannot believe that they would save very much money by going to a plastic guide rod from a metal one. There are so many other ways to cheap out on the production of the pistol that would save them far more money than by scrimping on an already cheap part like a guide rod. My .02 cents.
 
Great info on this thread guys! Now, should we get spare plastic guide rods for our guns? I would guess that the plastic rod would get beaten up and deformed/broken given enough hot rounds?
 
Perhaps this is a testament to the drop in quality of CZ products. The early CZ75s, as used by at least one Latin American army, can handle all types of hot ammo including IMI loads made for the UZI, Czech rounds made for the Beretta machine guns and other extremely hot ammo. If CZ75s are having trouble now it's not because of the ammo or the design but rather because of the quality of production. CZ75Bs are great pistols and real bargains, but they're simply not as well built as the earlier CZ75s-round trigger guard, spur hammer, and deep slide scallops.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
I put the Sprinco reducer in my CZ-85. Does the new 75B have a full length rod, or does the slide still have the enclosed end and uses the short rod like a Govt model.
 
In response to the last question: The CZ-75B has a full-length guide rod.

SIGs use plastic guide rods, too. I don't think anyone accuses them of cutting corners.

I have NEVER heard of a plastic guide rod failing. It must be a pretty rare event.

I wouldn't worry about it...
 
IF the slide bottoms out against the spring guide (short style), then I could see how it would save your gun by being the sacrificial lamb. Looking at my own, steel, spring guide, it's pretty beat up where it engages the barrel.
 
First of all, thanks, Paul! I couldn't remember everything you told me, so I wasn't going to attempt to give the explanation that you just did.
Second, I have to disagree with Walt. The CZ75B has a standard length rod, not a full length. That is unless his is single action only or a .40 cal. Unless he's talking about the SIGPRO, I've never seen a SIG with a plastic guide rod.
Tecolote-you sure post a lot. What do you do, carry a laptop with you so you can post all day? :) I also think you need to go out and shoot a newer CZ, instead of quickly lamenting the supposed decline of quality of the CZ's. Have you shot an older and a newer one? You sure seem to have a lot of opinions and information (much of which I enjoy reading), but I sometimes wonder if you have tons of experience, or if you are just an avid reader with a huge stack of gun mags in the john. If I'm way off base, sorry, I've been known to be wrong (and offensive). :(
 
SIG Arms used plastic rods for a while, in the P239 and P220, but subsequently dropped them in favor of metal.

As for shooting, yes I've shot plenty of CZs, from the venerable pre-free import versions to the newer CZ75Bs. Have you shot one of the earlier pistols side by side with a newer one? If not I recommend that you do so. I guarantee that you'll sell whatever CZ75Bs you have to get one of the originals. There's no ocmparison. The frame to slide fit is superb, the DA pulls is long but very smooth, SA pull breaks clean and is very light, the back strap is more ergonomic, the lack of the unnecessary passive firing pin safety makes the trigger pull smooth and not gritty and the finish is superior to anything put out by CZ currently. Like I said CZ75Bs are bargains and very good pistols, but they're nothing like the originals.

The gun rags are worthless on the topic of the CZ. Most of the writers have no experience with the earlier versions they have nothing to compare the newer guns with. I wish I could spend more time at the john.

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So many pistols, so little money.

[This message has been edited by Tecolote (edited February 24, 2000).]
 
Good answer, Tecolote. I knew I could count on you for a well thought, civil retort. I have seen and played with the older CZ's, but I haven't shot one. Personally, I failed to see a difference in quality, fit, and finish.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mylhouse:

Second, I have to disagree with Walt. The CZ75B has a standard length rod, not a full length. That is unless his is single action only or a .40 cal. Unless he's talking about the SIGPRO, I've never seen a SIG with a plastic guide rod. :([/B][/quote]

Well, my P-239 had a plastic guide rod... And bunches of guys on the SIG List were screaming about it. I traded it up to a P-220, which fit my hand better.

And I'm ready to stand corrected on the length of the CZ-75B guide rod.

Perhaps I misunderstand the use of the term "full length" as it applies to guide rods?

I have a .45 with a full-length guide rod, and it extends from where it sits against the front of the lug on the barrel to the front of the slide, where it is flush.

My CZ-75B does basically the same thing: it extends from where it contacts the barrel lug to front of the closed slide, flush with the front of the barrel. If that's not full length, then you're correct. Otherwise...

(And if the old CZs are really that much better than the CZ-75B, I'm gonna have to get an old CZ! I like my CZ-75B about as much as any gun I've got, and I've got several very nice ones... including a Python and a P-210.)
 
Walt, buddy, If you look at your CZ you will see that if the cz had a full length guide rod you would not be able to cycle the slide. There is no hole in the front of the slide for a full length rod to come out as the slide goes back. What you are thinking about is the standard John Browning auto pistol design 1911 etc. Although patterned after a Browning design the cz75 differs in some very significant ways and this is one.

As for the plastic guide rod... at least it won't rust or oxidize like steel or aluminum.

Telecote, I am concerned about your side by side comparisons, did you use two brand new guns with exactly the same ammo? It is not often, unless you are a gun writer or dealer, that you get two new guns to compare. If these guns were used different amounts then I say it is apples and oranges. I am curious as I have passed up a seriously used older cz75 for a cz75b. Personally I prefer the extra safety and and the newer finish. The old blue looked sweet but I sure like the fact that the gun is parkerized underneath the new finish. Better than blueing any day! What really was the differance between them that you noticed most?
ddt.
 
"Telecote, I am concerned about your side by side comparisons, did you use two brand new guns with exactly the same ammo? It is not often, unless you are a gun writer or dealer, that you get two new guns to compare. If these guns were used different amounts then I say it is apples and oranges. I am curious as I have passed up a seriously used older cz75 for a cz75b.

I disagree about the apples to oranges analogy. Differences in quality are apparent immediately. Compare an East German Mak to a Bulgarian one and you’ll immediately notice all the little details that make the former superior in terms of fit and finish. Although less extreme among CZ75s, the differences between the earlier models and the newer ones stand out. You don’t need to shoot the pistols to appreciate a discernible drop in quality. I am far from alone in my assessment. Ask anyone who has handled and fired the older CZ75s, to a person they’ll agree that the older versions.

The difference in shooting is likewise discernible. I had an opportunity to shoot a CZ75B against a CZ75 (round trigger guard, spur hammer, scalloped slide serration) using S&B 115grs. The smoother DA pull of and the crisper SA pulls of the older model make it, IMHO, a better pistol. This is no flame against CZ75Bs, just fact.

Personally I prefer the extra safety

The half cock safety was alerady there and it served well for years. The passive firing pin safety was added for the US market because of liability concerns. I knowplenty of people that carry the older style and thye've never had a single problem. Just exercise care when dropping the hammer regardless of which version you have.

and and the newer finish. The old blue looked sweet but I sure like the fact that the gun is parkerized underneath the new finish. Better than blueing any day!

Why? Take care of your stuff and it won't rust. The people I know arry their CZs in hot tropical climates and rust just isn't a problem.

What really was the differance between them that you noticed most?"

See my comments above. If you have the chance to get an excellent condition older CZ at a fair price don't pass it up. By older I mean the scalloped serrations model, not just round trigger guard and spur hammer.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddt4free:
Walt, buddy, If you look at your CZ you will see that if the cz had a full length guide rod you would not be able to cycle the slide. There is no hole in the front of the slide for a full length rod to come out as the slide goes back. What you are thinking about is the standard John Browning auto pistol design 1911 etc. Although patterned after a Browning design the cz75 differs in some very significant ways and this is one.
<snipped>

ddt. [/quote]

You're right, of course. I was responding without looking at the gun, and I have a number of 9mm pistols so clearly I confused it with another pistol. (Won't be the last time I'm confused, I'm sure.)

I suspect that the reason SIG changed from plastic to metal guide rods on some of their guns was the "flak" from shooters was too much trouble. As I said, I don't think I've ever heard of or seen a plastic guide rod fail...
 
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