Looking for some pointers/help deciding

R

RampantAndroid

New member
Hey all,

I currently own a Glock 21 and hate the trigger, so after starting a thread over in the semi-auto forums considering a Desert Eagle or a 1911....I've since backed off the idea of a DE and am considering other semi autos like a custom SA 1911 (probably about $1500), I plan to look at a HK45, a Sig 220...and I think that's about it for the semi autos I'm looking at. Now, for a semi auto, I'm looking at .45 ACP mainly. Not many 10mm guns to be found it seems, and 10mm also looks to cost more.

The intent with the gun is both range shooting, and keeping it with me when trail running/hiking as some of the trails near me (I'm in the Puget Sound area) do have bear sightings, and in past that limited me on where I was willing to hike.

However the new idea in my head is to pick up a revolver instead - it'd offer the flair/uniqueness I want, and can probably also work for keeping with me while hiking. I'm considering something like a S&W model 29 or 629 in .44magnum (can also fire .44 special?) - does this seem like a wise idea? Can anyone speak for a .44 magnum revolved? Is it fun to fire? Does getting a S&W Performance model with a compensator help recoil any? How easy is it to conceal on the hip? How about a shoulder holster (seems like that might work for running?)

Sorry for spawning a new thread, but figured since a revolved entered my head, it might be best to go off and find neutral ground :)

Thanks so much in advance!
RA
 
RampantAndroid,

I like the 10mm auto cartridge. I have been carrying a 1911 in 10mm auto for about the last 25 years. The Colt Delta Elite is available. I'm sure that you could find others as well for your price of $1,500. One of the best features of a 1911 is the trigger. It is the same every time, little take-up, short, very little over travel, and crisp.

Considering something like a S&W model 29 or 629 in .44 mag is likely a better choice for stopping a bear. Yes, a .44 mag revolver can also shoot the .44 special.

On concealment: The widest part of an "N" framed S&W is the cylinder at about 1.75 inches. You can get grips which are not that wide. Even a 4" barreled model would be a challenge to conceal because of the width. The weight is about 41 ounces empty. The S&W model 29 is a double action revolver. You can either thumb cock the hammer and have a short light trigger let-off; or have a long heavier pull on the trigger to cock the hammer.
 
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But when hiking, how much of a concern in concealment? Like I said - a shoulder strap underneath a light summer jacket could easily cover up the gun, right?

How is the cost of 10mm compared to .45 ACP or .44mag?

Is 10 easier to fire(than .44mag)? Does it jam/cause problems in your 1911 design?

Thanks!
 
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You answered your own question, the 629 is stainless steel, the 329 is a lightweight aluminum alloy with a very slight amount of scandium. The 629 is much less punishing to shoot; the 329 is easier to carry.

The alloy is not more durable, just lighter. The alloy gun has much snappier recoil, and is more likely to encounter bullets jumping crimp, and other issues.
 
A compensator reduces muzzle flip,,,
It does nothing to reduce the recoil of the gun,,,
The Model 329 is a light frame so it will have more felt recoil.

As an owner of a 6" Model 629,,,
I strongly urge you to shoot one before you buy one.

I have allowed many people to shoot my 6" 629,,,
It's convinced many of them they don't want a .44 Magnum handgun.

It's not called a hand-cannon for nothing. :D

Aarond
 
Yeah - I opened the wikipedia page for the Model 29 and discovered the 6 meant steel, and figured 3 meant alloy - makes sense.

As for the compensator- exactly what I meant. Is a compensator worth getting?

"encounter bullets jumping crimp"

Crimp? Up?

Aarond - I will be at my local range this thursday trying out a plethora of guns from their rental case. If I'm lucky, my friend and I will end the night playing with an automatic or something...and/or my sage stock will arrive before then (it just shipped!)

Sadly, I doubt they'll have a 629 AND a 329 - if I'm lucky they'll have at least one, and perferrably the 329.

When I fired a .357 magnum, I found it manageable, it was the first revolver I fired so my accuracy was bad (I'm fine with my glock) so I have to assume that, at least with .357 - I could deal with it given time. I've fired a .460magnum, from a supported position though.

Late edit: What is the trigger pull on a SW in double action? 5lb? More? I understand it's long, but is it uniform through the whole pull?
 
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Your chance of running into a black bear - that's going to cause you any problem that can't be handled by a rock or a stick - in the puget sound area is somewhere between slim and none...../ problems do come up once in a while ...but not often ( and I've lived, hiked and hunted big game all my life in Northern Washington, Idaho, and Montana )...and I've hunted and shot a lot of black bear, especially in Montana ( usually with a rifle .30-30 or .30-40 / but once with a 6" .357 mag as well) - all 1 or 2 shot kills ( they make great sausage - if you mix it with Venison !).

A .357 Mag is plenty of gun for a Black Bear ...especially in something manageable like a K frame, 4" --- is a good carry gun / you don't want anything too heavy if you're out running. Jumping up to a model 29 or 629 is a big leap ...guns are a lot heavier / a lot more recoil - much tougher to shoot accurately unless you've been around a lot of revolvers.

In any caliber of revolver - you don't want to carry a 6" ...unless you're really out in the wilderness a longways from anywhere ...( maybe carrying it in a flap holster or something ) like on a 10 day backpacking trip ...plus its just clumsier and heavier.

They do make model 629's in 3" - called a Trail Boss .../ it is a gun I have carried in a shoulder holster - when I was fishing in Northwestern Montana or in Alaska if I was in Brown Bear or Grizzly country ...but you don't need anything that heavy in black bear country....

S&W K frame like a model 19 or 66 - in a 4" is a good carry option.
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There is nothing wrong with a 10mm in a 1911 ...but you won't find many around / and yes the ammo is expensive. The last time I saw it ...it was similar to .44 mag ( around $ 35 for a box of 50 rds ). Dan Wesson makes a few guns in 10mm / so does Wilson Combat ....

Here's a link to Wilson's Hunter model .... $ 3,650 is their list price / but I suspect you can get one ordered and have it within 3 months if you really want to go that route ( they'll make it in .460 Rowland or 10mm).

An airlite revolver / especially in a .44 mag ....but you should shoot them and judge for yourself ....
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Like other responders ...I have a number of .357 mag( 2", 4", 6" mostly model 19's, 27's, 28's, 66's, 686's )... and .44 mag revolvers ...and I really like the older model 29's in 6" or 8 3/8" as range guns ...and I have a few 629's - a 3" Trail Boss, a 4", 6" and an 8 3/8" model 629 -DX ....and they are all fun to shoot in some respects. But carrying a big model 29 or 629 in a 6" or 8 3/8" is kind of like trying to draw a rifle out of a holster ...and even in a shoulder rig - they're bulky and heavy. I carry them in a shoulder rig - when I'm wading / fly fishing or bank fishing ..in big bear country ...( my buddy carries a sawed off 12ga shotgun / in a sling from his fishing vest ) ...but even with big bears / its all about letting them have a fish vs fighting them for it once in a while ...and just moving on to another spot... We're prepared ...but its a last resort to take on any charging bear ( especially a Brown or a Grizzly ) ...
 
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Jumping crimp means a bullet (or multiple bullets) get snapped so hard in the cylinder by the gun's acceleration under recoil, that they break free of the crimp where the case holds the bullet in the cartridge. This sometimes results in a loosened bullet moving far enough forward to jam the cylinder and frame, and keep the cylinder from rotating.

Edit: Based on some of the questions you are asking, I really think you need to get a friend who shoots revolvers well to take you to a range that has some rental guns. You might also consider getting some professional, hands-on instruction. Not picking on you, but some things will become much more obvious to you that way, much more quickly.

Second edit: One of our members, Pax, is a very well known instructor named Kathy Jackson. She teaches at the Firearms Academy of Seattle, which, ironically, is in Chehalis... You might want to contact her.
 
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I have 3 different S&W .44 magnum revolvers. One is a 629 Classic with a 5'' barrel, one is a PC Model 629 Magnum Hunter with a 7 5/8'' barrel with a comp and the last is a 329 NG.

The 329 is a gun meant to carried a lot and shot little. I shoot it most often with .44 special type loads in .44 magnum brass. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot with full house .44 mag loads. It is also not made to be shot with a heavy diet of full house .44 magnum loads. It is a fine gun for what it is designed for, but it is not a range gun. The 629 Classic is a nice shooter. It is heavy enough to tame recoil and still small enough to be carried comfortably(for me anyway)in a hip holster. It is very accurate and makes for a good all around gun. The PC Magnum Hunter is a wonderful firearm. The trigger breaks like glass in both SA and DA. It is extremely accurate and the comp makes it a real pleasure to shoot. Yes, compensators tame recoil. :rolleyes: Because of this, this gun gets fired a lot at the range. For hunting I carry it in a bandolier type holster. Factory .44 magnum ammo can get expensive. If you do not reload, and if you do not expect to reload in the future, I'd recommend getting a 686 in .357.
 
Fix the trigger and stay with your G21. Glocks aren't pieces we like to brag about or show off but when the doo doo hits the fan it is the finest most beautiful darling going.
 
The trigger fundamentally cannot be fixed due to the safety system...it'll always be the annoying long pull followed by the actual pull after that. Can I just leave up to let it reset? Yes. Do I enjoy firing the Glock though, at the range? Not really. I want something FUN to fire...and unique is a plus. It's the reason I bought an M1A that I'm dropping in a Sage EBR Mod 0 stock, as opposed to the generic AR15 (partially why I didn't get the Troy stock, either.) It's not for bragging rights or anything, but I do enjoy the the odd guns...or the less common.

----

The 10mm 1911 certainly looks like a good option - can dealers order directly from them?

Edit: Hmm, discontinued it looks like?

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As far as revolvers go...I'm assuming the 629 would be the "best" 44mag from S&W as far as the flip goes? I'll certainly also look at the S&W 686 - I think they have one at my shop. How is the magnum hunter different trigger wise?

Also, with reloading, I have a friend who reloads, and I've considered reloading myself, but being in an Apartment, I don't know how bad that'd be to do. I always collect brass for my friend, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind reloading .44mag (I don't think he fires it) as long as I paid for the cost.

As far as bears in the Pacific NW, I doubt I'll see one and have to do anything, though in past I was deterred by reported bear or big cat sightings on trails, and simply avoided the trails, regardless of how recent the sighting was.

Really, I'm looking for something fun to fire that I can kinda conceal while on a trail, not something to conceal while walking around the city or something.

Thanks again for all the info - given me a fair amount to think about :)
 
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As far as best shooting S&W .44 magnum, bear in mind that the 29 family of revolvers (29 blue steel, 629 stainless steel; 329 alloy) come in different barrel lengths and configurations (full or partial underlug; bull or pencil barrel) and with different grip frames (square butt on some, round butt on others).

For a concealable hiking gun that would mostly be shot with .44 Special but could be loaded up for bear, it's hard to beat the Mountain Gun variant: round butt frame, 4" pencil barrel with partial underlug. These normally come with Ahrends wood round-to- square conversion grips, which conceal pretty well and are comfortable with .44 Special.

If planning to shoot more than the occasional cylinder of magnum ammo, you might consider getting a Hogue rubber X frame grip. These are used on the .460 and .500 S&W revolvers, and are fantastic for taming recoil. Being big and rubber, they can grab fabric and are harder to conceal.

You might also look at a S&W 25 or 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt.
 
How hard is .44 special to find? If I want to go to the range often, is 44 special an option for when I don't want to be paying as much and be able to fire more before my hand hurts?
 
Through cheaper than dirt, even .44 mag doesn't look that expensive...

For the performance center S&W revolvers - are those made on an order to order basis (do you actually select what you want and then wait a month or two?)
Edit: Oh, also...how does the stealth hunter differ from the magnum hunter?
Stealth hunter
Magnum hunter

How does .44 special compare to .44 magnum and .357 magnum?
 
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.44 Special is easier on the hands and on the gun than .44 Magnum, but is not really easier on the wallet.

You may want to get into reloading.
 
Well, the end to this story:

First, it beings with an apology: threegun, I should not have dismissed your point. I'm going to have work done to fix my trigger of my Glock 21 up; I handled a G19 at my local shop (Wade's, in Bellevue WA) that had a modified trigger; the pull was MUCH better. Not 1911 single action better, but...better. Worth the $60 worth of parts and labor. I'll be dropping the gun off for that work AND night sights in 10 business days...(more on that later)

I fired .357 Magnum and found it easily controllable, even when holding the gun as if it were a semi-auto (was firing a Ruger GP100 in both 4" and 6".) I found the gun to be easy to control, lacking the "boom" wanted...so I stepped up to the .44 magnum.

I held it wrong as well and the cylnder release bit into my thumb. I was corrected on my way of holding it...and started to get better. I didn't hit dead center (a friend did) but I came very close to center more than once. Ton of fun? Yes. But the web of my hand between my thumb and index finger hurt. My wrist was fine though.

So, I wander out to the store...poke the gun case, look at a GP100 4" barrel and find it looking "meh" (I was tempted my a .357 Rhino I think it was - barrel on the bottom/fired out of the bottom. Looked nice, but too small) - I look at some S&W performance center .357s that look nice and also look like they'll blow a hole in my wallet. I skip on the .44 since I don't think I'm ready to fire that all the time...let alone carry it.

And then the salesman reaches in as I'm trying to decide...and drops a real beauty on the counter. I think I fell in love before I even touched it:

http://rampantandroid.com/images/Guns/SW41/IMG_0626.JPG

S&W Model 57, with a 4" barrel chambered in .41 Magnum. In 10 busness days...well, I get that beauty. Next up: trip to the court house to get a CPL. I know what I'm carrying now. Oh, and speedloaders. I want speed loaders.

Thanks everyone for all the tips and pointers!!! I haven't fired .41 Mag yet...but when I saw the model 57 I knew that, being able to handle .44 magnum OK, that I would love the gun. (the back sight looks odd - will take getting used to)

A day of firing .357, .44, .45 ACP (Springfield 1911), 7.62x51 (M1A) and 9mm ruger (MP5 full auto) later....well, I'm in heaven. :)

Oh, finally...I fired the 1911 after firing revolvers an the HK MP5. Of 7 rounds, 4 went below the paper, I was so used to the other sights already (normally my accuracy is FINE....)
 
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Good choice, but...

(I want a 57, myself, but in Mountain Gun format, if I can find one)

... you will REALLY want to get into reloading now.

First, .41 Magnum is hard to find, and it is expensive. It's a handloader's round, if you want to keep costs down, and be able to shoot on a regular basis.

Also, they don't make a .41 Special, so all the factory ammo you will find will kick almost as hard as .44 Magnum.

So you should give serious thought to checking out the hand loading forum on TFL, and picking up and learning to use some reloading gear.
 
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