looking for press or kit advice

L

labnoti

New member
I'm new to forums but made a similar post at The High Road. I'm looking for advice about reloading. I formerly hand loaded rifle and shotshell 20-something years ago, but have been out of it for that long. I used a single-stage RCBS RCII press for rifle, and a Hornady progressive press for shotshell. I had a lot of equipment, but I sold it all many years ago.

I do have:
. a small vibratory tumbler
. a high quality 0.01g digital scale and high precision calibration weight
. Brown and Sharp calipers

Now I want to load handgun cartridges. I have some questions but a few answers first:

* I'll start with .38 special/.357 magnum. Nothing else for a couple years.
* I want to make light loads for training with a J frame.
* I want to reload my training cartridges to save expense.
* I will use lead bullets but will not cast my own.
* I will reload enough to shoot about 150 cartridges per week. I can't see it going over 300 per week even in the future and it's more likely to stay 150 or less.

My source for brass will be spent factory loads that I will have shot. I'll remove primers, and clean the brass. I won't need to trim the cases for now since they're rimmed and they'll be .38's in a longer .357 magnum chamber.

Now my questions:

Single stage, turret or progressive?
RCBS, Hornady, Lee, Dillon?
should I de-prime and/or prime with a hand tool or on a press?

The advice I've heard so far is for a Lee Classic Turret. I'd get their dies and drum powder measure. That seems like a reasonable solution. Am I better off spending a little more?

What have I not thought of to ask?
 
Just to start getting some suggestions out but not going too deeply, even though you expect minimal output, you would be better off with a progressive like a Dillon 550. For priming, one of the best tools for that is the RCBS Automatic Priming Tool that bolts to the bench. Priming from the press is a bit old fashioned and some report that a hand primer tool is very tiring although I have never used one. Of course with a progressive you prime on the tool.
 
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Dillon SDB. Can't beat the reliability, ease of use or speed of an SDB for handgun ammo.
Since you aren't carrying over a bunch of dies & other stuff SDB makes sense.
 
You are making the same decisions I made in 2011 when I started reloading. I made the decision to go with a turret press based on my experience in manufacturing. I learned that "flow manufacturing" where each part is carried through to completion before another is started, is superior to "batch and queue manufacturing" were all the parts in a batch are completed through an operation before any parts are moved to the next operation. I also learned that trying to automate a process before it was a stable process completed manually often led to expensive errors. If I think of using a single stage press as batch and queue, a turret as manual flow manufacturing, and a progressive as automated flow manufacturing, the sweet spot for me was a turret press and that's the way I went.

I initially purchased a Lee Value Press (the aluminum base, short stroke version) with the Lee 4-piece die set, and that served me well for over 10K rounds before I added a Lee Classic Press as I added reloading .223 Rem. Along the way, I also picked up an RCBS AmmoMaster progressive which I use exclusively for 9mm but I really don't like a progressive. I can easily load 100-150 rounds an hour on either Lee turret without stressing, and it never made sense to me to prime anywhere but on the press (back to that flow manufacturing mindset). Actually, I don't load much faster on the progressive, but I do pull the handle much less often. If the Lee Auto Prime is carefully set up, it works great. Lee has recently redesigned the Value Turret Press and it may be something to consider instead of the LCT.

The other thing I learned in manufacturing is to try to "mistake proof" processes to the maximum extent possible. Like you, I started with .38 Special with purchased lead bullets. Reading convinced me that the most likely, and most dangerous, mistake I could make was to double charge a case. Therefore, besides using the turret press, which intrinsically helps prevent double charging, I started loading with Trail Boss powder. It is good for lead bullets and light loads, and because it is so "fluffy" you will overflow the case if you try to double charge. Using other powders like Bullseye or HP-38, you can load triple charges and still not overflow the case. I've since moved to HP-38 and other powders, but the extra confidence Trail Boss gave me in the early days was very welcome.

I am an unabashed Lee fan because I think they give great value for the money and do everything I need them to do. I do have the RCBS press and dies and they are very good quality but don't make any better ammo than my Lee equipment. The more expensive gear may be a bit easier to set up properly but I can't comment since I don't have experience with them. You can surely go with a progressive press, but for 100-150 rounds a week it may be a bit overkill. If you were planning to load 1000 rounds a week, a progressive with some component auto-loading would be a great way to go.

Welcome to reloading and good luck.

Added edit: I'm also a fan of the Auto Disk Powder Measure (with the Auto Charge Bar) over the Auto Drum Powder Measure unless you need larger powder drops for rifle cartridges.
 
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Jamaica,
Doesn't matter if you like Lee or not.
Plain and simple they work and do the same job your RCBS does at a fraction of the price.
 
I batch load 50-100 at a time with my Hornady Single Stage and I love it. I know it's not as fast as a progressive but I'm not in a hurry. I enjoy the time in the reloading room. I tumble everything when I get back from the range then follow these steps. 1. deprime and resize, 2. Prime with a hand primer which I find fast and easy, 3. Load powder in batches of 50 in a loading block, 4. Seat and crimp at the same time with my Hornady dies. Sometimes I stop after step 1 or 2 and come back later to finish up. It boils down to speed and money. The faster you want to load the more the initial investment.
 
Lee equipment may work short term...but I will say they are not a durable long term option.

I 2nd the concept of a Dillon SDB ...if all you want to reload is handgun ammo...its a much better press than any of the Lee options. If you want to load rifle as well, look at Dillon 650...( I don't like the 550 because it manually indexes, which introduces more cha ce of human error.)

I suggest you deprime - and reprime - on the press...no reason to clean before you deprime brass.
 
1st of all labnoti Welcome to the forum!
As you can see already you are going to get the full gamut of suggestions and many personal opinions as well. So I'll give mine.

Like you I use to do this long ago and then left it only to recently start over. So from what you are stating are your usage patterns 150 a week isn't a lot. I have to agree with skinnedknuckles and being like me that you will be loading pistols I believe the Lee turret press is the best way to go or then if on a bigger budget maybe a Dillon SBD, next up the list would be a Dillon 550. The other press I would suggest looking at is the new Lee Pro Breech Lock. It is different than anything else on the market and looks to be more than a turret but not quite a full progressive and does use 4 stations.

Anyways that is my recommendation in order that I would go. Any one of them will easily keep up to your needs and last forever.

My last recommendation is to look used too! It is hard to wear out any one of these presses and they can be found used for very reasonable prices and still in good condition. Many get started, buy all the stuff and then just give up and move on to something else.
 
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I started on a Hornady lnl, great press then I bought a RCBS jr 3 for small runs of intricate loads. Set up lnl using Highboy YouTube videos, never looked back, plus all the free bullets and service:)


Thewelshm
 
Labnoti;

First, welcome.

I began reloading a bit over four years ago now, on a Lee single stage. After a couple years I upgraded to a Redding T7 turret. So I know where you're at right now.

My advice to you is start with a single stage of whichever brand you think you like. I say this because your stated level of production is not great enough to warrant a progressive, in fact it's right at what a single stage comfortably produces. Also, even if you decide to graduate from a single stage, it's always nice to have one on the bench next to your progressive or turret. As I said, I used a Lee for a couple years to learn on. I still have it, though these days it's relegated to depriming and resizing duties only.

I also have a RCBS Rockchucker single stage. Taking money out of the equation, the RCBS is a better machine, but the difference isn't huge. but I'd be willing to bet that the RCBS will last much longer than the Lee. YMMV.

However, the Lee Classic Turret will do just fine as well, if you choose that route. It doesn't match up in terms of build quality with a Redding T7, but it will do the job you're asking about, and it's lots cheaper than a T7 in every way (accessories, etra turrets, etc.)

Good luck in your search.
 
Starting single stage is good advice for someone who has never reloaded, but he used to reload rifle on a RC II.

I think the Lee turret and the Dillon Square Deal B are both good suggestions. The Dillon costs more but comes with dies already set up in the handgun caliber of your choice and lifetime no-questions-asked fast replacement parts warranty and very good phone service. But what you are mainly paying for is speed. One time when I was late getting started on my way to a match, with me feeding cases and running the handle and replenishing primers from tubes I had already filled, and my wife setting bullets, we did 300 rounds of .45 Auto in about 20 minutes on mine. I don't know if time is a factor for you or not, but the progressive completes a round with each handle pull verses three or four handle pulls on various turret presses. But 150 is not a lot of ammo per week, so if you have the time and enjoy the process, you may actually prefer the slower pace.
 
skinnedknucles wrote:
...I learned that "flow manufacturing" where each part is carried through to completion before another is started, is superior to "batch and queue manufacturing" were all the parts in a batch are completed through an operation before any parts are moved to the next operation.
Click to expand...

That's not universally true.

In what industry and with respect to what process did you discover this? And how is that experience related to reloading?
 
In my opinion, anyone telling you to get anything other than a single stage press to start out with is telling you to run before you have learned to walk.

There is a lot of empirical knowledge to be gained in order to become a proficient reloader. There is also a whole host of sub-processes that have to be mastered to reload safely. Progressive (and to a lesser extent turret) presses remove you from those experiences by at least one degree, sometimes two and that's greatly increases your chances of becoming a reloader who cannot recognize or diagnose his own problems.

You noted that you asked the same question on TheHighRoad, well go back there today and look at the post of the guy who had numerous hangfires and failures to fire and can't work out why. That could be you if you try to run before you learn how to walk.
 
Another thought.
150 per week is not much and should easily be done in a nights work whether on a single stage press or a progressive. So there are two things to look at. Budget and budget $.
Time budget, how much time do you want to invest to accomplish these 150 rounds? A couple hours each week or a few hours once a month? How much money do you want to invest? Sky and your bank account are the limit. I've got about $300.00 invested in 3 presses and enough dies and tooling to load 380acp, 38spl, 357mag, 9mm and 45acp.. Yes it was all purchased used and I can honestly say to myself that the ammunition that comes off these used presses is just as accurate as any factory ammunition that I have purchased.

For time budget, I just finished loading 230 pcs. of 45acp on an old Lee Value 3 hole turret press. This took longer than normal because I was loading for a new pistol that is causing grief. But this will also last me and my wife for the whole month. Then after we shoot these out I will then reload them on my Lee Pro1000 and have then done in about 2 hours. Then a few weeks ago I set up the Pro1000 for 380acp and in a few hours I had done enough to last me a few months. Now that I am done with those and the 45acp I will be changing the Pro back to 9mm as I have about 1000 pcs of brass already processed and ready to load and then I shouldn't have to load again for a while. So during that time all the reloading equipment will be sitting the idle. Which also explains why I spent my money on all used equipment, because it spends more time sitting idle than it does being used.
 
Back in the good old days, we used to load and shoot 1,000-1,500 handgun rounds per month. Did it all on a RCBS Jr press.

I bought a progressive press and used it for a few months, then traded it.

Went back to the single stage. We now shoot maybe 500-700 rounds per month.

We do it all on single stage.

There are some really good turrets and progressive presses running around out there nowadays. If you wanna spend some money, get a good one. You won't regret it.

I have always loaded shotgun on a progressive and it serves us well.

I bought my first press sometime in 1967 and up until that time I got by with a Lee Loader which is now called the Lee Classic.

My SIL bought a Dillon Square Deal, but when he learned you can't load rifle cartridges on it, he sold it and saving money for the 650. I wished him well.
 
I am not sure if I can as add much value as the older folks on this forum but I will add my 2 cents. I have only ised my lee 1000 progressive and an older redding turrent. My lee progressive is a pain in the ass. Once i get it right it goes but it takes a bit of tinkering to get there. Most of my reloading is pistol cartridges which is why i use it. I dont think I could use a single stage or turrent for those rounds because its just not worth my time. The way i do it i can get a few hundred a hour but i dont clean my brass or hand prime. With a pistol round for plinking i just dont see the need but many will say different. I love the lee because it has taught me so much and makes me pay attention to the process. If i had gotten a dillon I probably would have gotten over confident learned a lot less on what can go wrong. I dont regret staring out with the lee but im ready to move on at this point in my experiance. Its a great starter press and i am happy I started using it first before a dillon. Its a hell of a lot cheaper too which is why i started reloading anyway.
Starting off with a Lee progressive vs a Dillon is like starting to drive with a beat up car vs a a new car. Staring with the old used car you know lot more about whats going on that the person that has the new car. Although the used car f$!ks up every now and again haha

I would like to add that I only use a progressive to pound out cartridges. I shoot mainly 357/38 and 9mm. If its a rifle round where I want to give each round more attention then the turrent press is the way to go. You have reloading experience so i think you could bypass a single stage. I dont understand why people recommend them anyway when a turrent press does the same think but you can place all the dies on there and not have to worry about swapping and resetting them.
 
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For the relatively low volume you are talking about, the Lee Classic Turret may be a good suggestion. It takes me about 20 minutes to make a box of handgun ammo with mine, so an hour or so to do your 150 rounds a week.

Kempf gun shop sells their own kit, not the Lee kit, with the LCT, priming rig, powder dispenser, and your choice of die sets, in the $200 neighborhood. Upgrades in powder dispensers are available for modest up-charges, and they throw in a few ammo boxes. Since you already have a scale, and the Lee scale isn't universally applauded, that will likely be a better deal for you than the Lee kit, if you decide to go with the LCT. That shop is a family run outfit with pleasant folk and prompt shipping, at least in my experience.
 
"Jamaica,
Doesn't matter if you like Lee or not.
Plain and simple they work and do the same job your RCBS does at a fraction of the price."

Yep, and the difference is in the quality. You get what you pay for!
 
BigJimP: "Lee equipment may work short term...but I will say they are not a durable long term option."

and I agree!
 
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