looking for input on an M1/M21 build (moved from semi autos)

I

insomni

New member
So! The Wife gave me the thumbs up to sell an old rifle, with an alright but not great scope and put the money towards a M1A. (she runs the budget, because she's better at managing money than me, I run the armory)

I've been looking, and started with the Springfield Armory Loaded M1A, which i found at a local place for $1480. They also have the 18" Squad Scout for a little less.

But then I started looking..... and trouble began when i got to Fulton Armory's page and saw I could get an M21 version for $3200, which got me thinking.....

I am a gearhead. I work on my truck, on her car, I built my computer from the ground up, I have messed around completely gutting my AR a few times, why not build an M1A/M21?

I'm looking to use it as a hunting rifle, so I want to keep the weight down.

I'm looking at the following setup:
$1,939.95 - Fulton Armory M14 EBR Barreled Action, Complete
$665 - M14.CA Blackfeather RS stock (I plan to use one of my many pistol grips I have in my parts bin)
$90 - ACE Skeletonized Buttstock (Rifle length)
$75 - EBR Trigger Shoe
$310 - Springfield Armory M-25, M-21, M1A Tactical Trigger Group
Which before trying to work deals and discounts (pretty much all the big parts have a military/vet discount available) looks like it'll be about a $3080 build and I might be able to get it as low as 2600.
Also, I can make this work if I get creative with the spending and spread it out over a few months. There is no way in hell though that I can afford a $400 Krieger barrel for it any time soon. Scope mount will come later.

so questions:
1. would that build be worth a crap, much less $2600-$3100?
2. Is it worth getting a Fulton Armory barreled action?
3. Or would a Springfield do fine? By the numbers, upgrading the stock on a Loaded M1A would be somewhere around $500 cheaper, which I could then follow up with an upgrade to a Krieger match barrel.
3. Is there a company that makes a high quality receiver/action like Fulton for less?
 
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Just my dos centavos

Guess what?

The M21 is not better than a 7.62 mm Nato AR platform for several reasons:

(1) More moving parts. Op rod, op rod spring, op rod spring guide, piston not found on a Stoner system (OK, it has a buffer and buffer spring). This means that it is harder to get more consistent harmonics.
(2) Disassembly. Once the M21 is glass bedded, assembly/reassembly can wear out the locking parts, causing slop, creating more inconsistent harmonics.
(3) Receiver. Besides glass bedding, the best of them have recoil lugs to provide more to bed against. Besides the rear lug, there can be two lugs in the area beneath where the bolt locks up and some even have one in the front of the receiver. This of course means incresaed costs and more to bed (and more bedding to wear out).
(4) More difficult to maintain. The M21 is a prima donna. Special ammunition diet and care to keep it going than a Stoner based 7.62 mm Nato.
(5) More specialized tools to work on it than on a Stoner based 7.62 mm rifle. Try getting a receiver wrench. They're more expensive than the barrel lug nut wrench for the AR. Chamber cleaning tool more expensive than the one for the AR. No gas cylinder to unitize either. Check out Brownells for some of the tools that you'll need and then compare it with the AR tools (some of which are nice to have, but not absolutely neccessary).
(6) Ease of service. Stoner ARs are like Lego toys. If you can work on a motorcycle, car or played with Legos, you can work on an AR. Can't say the same about the M-1. You should take a specialized class on them (most folks don't understand why M-1 Tanker Garands will fail) and why the Beretta BM-59 don't.
(7) Scope mount? Be sure to get a two point (one that replaces the clip guide and the other for the hole in the receiver) steel mount. Stay away from aluminium as it walks. I have an old Brookfield Precision but the newer ones like the ARMS offer more flexibility with its picatinny rail type mount. They're also more expensive that AR scope rings.

If you must build a semi-automatic on a 7.62 mm Nato platform, go AR (says this guy who doesn't even own one yet).
 
Got it. Thanks for the heads up on the steel rail

I know the strengths of the AR platform. I love my AR, love my bolt guns

However , I have yet to be wowed by a 7.62 NATO AR. I think the SASS M110 is adequate on accuracy, shoots like crap. The SR25 was better, but I still didn't really like it. Interested more in making a project gun that's not another AR
 
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Probably not what you want to hear, but if I had it to do all over, I'm not sure I would. I'd go DPMS 308 and be done.

That being said. If you're sold on an M21, I'd strongly recommend looking at LRB Arms. They have parts kits available in addition to manufacturing several parts. I've yet to hear anything bad about them, although my knowledge is dated. I had my M21 built several years ago, and did my research years before that. I bought bits and pieces off GB and I don't remember where and sent it to a smith. FWIW, I have no use for Fulton. I will admit that dislike goes back many years and stems from threads on forums that no longer exist. Maybe they aren't that bad presently. Again, my research was many years ago. I figured out what I wanted and who I wanted to build it, just took me awhile to acquire all the parts and cash.

I started with Polytech that I purchased in 2002. I can't find my build sheet. As best I remember below is Poly receiver, TRW bolt, TRW trigger, Poly op rod, Kreiger barrel, Smith Ent flash hider, Brookfield type scope mount, McMillan stock, and a few other USGI parts I've forgotten. As best I remember, I've got $2500-$3000 in it including the bill from the smith.

Don't get me wrong. I love the rifle. But, I think I could have gotten where I wanted cheaper and easier with AR-10 variant. I understand wanting to build it yourself, not sure I'd recommend it with an M21 copy. Everything I read suggested they are a SOB to get right. I cried "no mas". They guy that built mine is a former Navy armorer. I was very happy with his work, but i don't shoot that rifle much. I waited 6-7 years putting together the parts and money. Just unsure if I'd do it again.

There are/were a couple forums dedicated to the M14. I'd recommend doing some reading there before making any big purchases.

Good luck.

 
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