Looking for a Semi-Auto Rifle

S

Skorzeny

New member
Could the learned rifle folks recommend a semi-auto rifle for the following criteria:

1. Reliable - able to function 100% with FMJ, SP, JHP and other ammunition as well as to function with minimal cleaning and maintenance (guess that knocks out AR15/M16).

2. Durable - able to function reliably with minimal maintenance and replacement of parts. Also, parts should be widely available just in case.

3. Simple - easy to field-strip, clean and maintain.

4. Affordable - under $1,000 (knocks out most "pre-ban" rifles).

5. Widely available mil-spec or factory (meaning reliable) high-capacity magazines.

6. Politically correct so as not to freak out the local government types as well as the neighbors (AK-types are out).

Accuracy, while nice, is not as important since this will be a plinking and urban defense rifle.

So, does a rifle like this exist?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
With the exception of #6 on your list, you are describing an AK.

What about a compromise. Buy an AK, and paint it Barbie Pink. :)
 
Skorzeny, in my experience, criterion #1 does NOT knock out the AR15/M16, and my reccommendation would be an Armalite postban M15 except that you want the rifle to look politically correct. In that case there is only one choice, the Ruger Mini 14, particularly since accuracy isn't that important to you (you won't get it).
But were it me, I would go with an AR...they are much more accurate than a Mini and I have yet to run into a factory AR by a major manufacturer (Colt, Bushmaster, Olympic, Armalite) that won't run perfectly with good magazines.
 
RikWriter:

I have heard from numerous people who took rifle courses that AR15 types often began to experience trouble after several hundreds and thousands of rounds without cleaning.

AK's and Mini's kept on going at these courses, apparently, after several AR15's quit long time ago.

I already have a Mini-14 and I like it. However, while the 30-round PMI mags and 20-round CheaperthanDirt mags feed okay, they do not function 100% - strangely enough, after I take out these mags, the bolt slams shut occassionally. No doubt, factory 20- and 30-round mags will function 100% - but they cost an arm and a leg nowadays (unlike AR15 or AK mags).

Again, I am not looking for stellar accuracy. I am looking for a rifle that will tolerate a lot of abuse and yet keep firing and at the same time is not too expensive to own (including magazines). I'll take something under $1,000, but preferably below $600-800.

Sounds like I might have to get a Romanian AK (unless I find a bargain Bulgarian one). Of course, the trouble with the AK is that one can never tell when it will be regulated and banned extensively. At least the Ruger will be politically-safe, for a while longer anyway.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

[This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited February 04, 2000).]
 
Skorzeny, I can't speak for those folks' experience, the only rifle course I took was the US Army Infantry. However, through the mud and sand of Florida, Georgia and Hawaii, I never had a jam with live ammo in my entire military experience.
But be that as it may...
If you can't afford factory Mini14 mags, my next suggestion would be to find one of those Saiga AK Hunters that lack a pistol grip to look more PC, but still take AK mags.
 
Skorzeny- You might want to look at the FN FAL. It's in .308 Win, has been proven in various combat actions throughout the world, is more accurate than I could believe, mine shoots 2" at 100 yds with IMI ball ammo, iron battle sights. It will take a scope easily using an A.R.M.S. or DSA type of mount. I just ordered mine, and I'll let you know how this works. The best part is that MilSpec parts, and MilSpec mags are readily available and cheap. I got 11 20 rd mags by FN for $12 each at a gunshow, and just ordered 10 more Steyr mags from 'R' Guns for $10 ea. The best FN's are currently on Imbel or DSA receivers, and available from DS Arms or Federal Ordnance. I absolutely love mine, and it's right next to the AR in my favorite military firearm category. I also have an M1A from Springfield Armory, which I also like, but the mags are WAY too expensive now. The FN outclasses the AK in both power and accuracy, and is just as reliable. I hope this helps.
Mike
 
Somehow I just never think of an AK as a "rifle", and the cartridge as all that wonderful. To me, a "rifle" is something that works well out at several hundred yards.

I've only had one M1A, and after replacing the trigger group to avoid "doubling" or slam-fires, it performed perfectly. I sold it, and have heard no complaints from its present owner. Still performing.

Your desire for a box-magazine obviates the Garand, which otherwise is a great rifle.

Given the cost of ANY new rifle, how much would you be spending for, say, five factory magazines for your Mini? All my Minis have functioned without difficulty, and all could group at 1-1/2" (100 yards) with a scope. If you're not competing on targets, a Mini is as pragmatically accurate as you would need.

FWIW, Art
 
You might try a Russian Saiga. It's an AK, but with a straight stock (no p-grip) and has a different handguard. It doesn't really look like an AK, but the reliability and design are the same, plus some models will accept standard AK mags. I've seen them for $250-$300.
 
Yep, the M1 Garand fits the bill.

1- Sure is reliable

2- Durable and you don't need extra parts

3- Simple, find a gun that is easier to take the stock and trigger group off of

4- Affordable at $420 to your door, no FFL needed

5- Milspec steel clips at $.35 each, and the high capacity 8 round mag is fixed so you won't loose it! :)

6- Many use it as a hunting rifle

7- Urban defense? Right here! You can take out guys on the other side of a car with M2 ball. Or behind an electric pole, or concrete block, or bricks, or in another house.

8- I shoot 2.5 MOA with irons with the Talon reloaded ammo, and this is a used military gun.

Get one while you can!

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Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
 
Thanks for all the information and ideas.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
Another rifle you might consider is the SKS. Like the Garand, most come with a fixed 10-round magazine and load via stripper clips. But they can be converted to use AK magazines or larger fixed magazines (unless you live in California).

They also look more politically correct than an AK, and are reputed to be very reliable (at least with the original fixed magazine). They are also inexpensive. There are some carbine ("paratrooper") versions available with 16" barrels. You could customize with a plastic "sporter" stock. Finally, while the cartridge is not particularly powerful, it is considered adequate and legal for deer, etc. (unlike the .223), and decent ammo is very cheap ($100/1,000 rounds of new Wolf brand Russian ammo).

Another option might be the M1 Carbine. It's cartrige is pretty low-powered, but still better than most pistol cartridges, and you can get rebuilt military rifles or new (IMI?) clones for around $450 or so. you can get inexpensive USGI 15 and 30-round magazines.

Personally, I'd opt for the SAR-1 AK clone (I have two) and not worry about looking politically correct. ARs are also nice, and a Mini-14 or Mini-30 wouldn't be bad choices either. And if you want more power, the FAL is a nice option. I really can't argue with any of the suggestions above.

[This message has been edited by DougB (edited February 08, 2000).]
 
Garand from the CMP(www.odcmp.com), I don't think you'll be sorry IMHO. The only drawback being the ammo but if you shop around you'll find some at good prices.
Boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,ting!!!(I LOVE IT!)

Mouse Gun
 
Skorzeny,
I agree with RikWriter that criteria #1 does not knock ot the AR-15/M-16. I've carried one in sub-zero temperatures to jungle to desert environments. Minimal maintenance to keep it going consists of wiping down the bolt carrier and the bolt, oiling them and running a pipe cleaner in the gas tube to dislodge whatever carbon you can. Keep it oiled, and unless you're in the desert, you're good. The weakest portion of the rifle is the magazine, so if your mags are good you'll be ok.

This of course is IMHO

good luck




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Walk softly and carry a big stick (Yeah I know I stole it)
 
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