Looking for a big gun...

N

Nathan

New member
Looking for a big gun. Something dangerous game capable, but reasonably priced. I'm thinking 458 Lott or 470 Capstick. Is there something else I should be looking at? What rifle? Ruger used to make a 458 Lott. Maybe Winchester makes a 458 or 470...

Anybody else $2000 or under?
 
375 H&H or 458 Win Mag have been getting it done for many decades. Unless you just want a huge cannon for the fun then......
 
I would include one of the 416 for consideration. With right bullets will kill right on a par with any comparable 458 and do it with a little less punishment. I like the cz 550 in 416 rigby. There are no shortage of choices 416 remington in a model 70, 416 ruger in a ruger or 404 in a CZ. BTW, the 40's are popular for a good reason.

Unless you have decided on a Model 70, I prefer the 458 Lott over the 458 win. But not available in the M70, it is offered by many others such as the cz 550. More versatile and just about perfect. You can still shoot 458 win,but; there is no point really.

I would forget the 470, it is custom only. The M70 were a big problem in 470. I would avoid any of those in a used m70. IMHO, A money pit for no gain. if you ant big look at one of the 50's. I dont recommend that unless you test fire one first.

Nothing wrong with a 375, as already suggested - I just like to toss out the idea of one of the 40's.
 
Have a 375 and a 458 lott, no comparison on effect of power. I bought a used Rem 700 in 458 Win and had it rechambered. Reloaded for it and enjoyed the the effort of load development.
Used both the 375 and the 458 L in Africa in separate hunts.
With today's powders there is nothing wrong with a 458 win. In the past the factory 458 win ammo was causing irregular velocity. Less of a problem today.
The book "the perfect shot" does an excellent job on big bore info.
 
CZ makes their "relatively" affordable models 550 "Safari Magnum" and 550 "Safari Classic" bolt-action rifles chambered for several magnum cartridges, including .375 H&H, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, .450 Rigby, .458 Winchester, .458 Lott, .500 Jeffery and .505 Gibbs. Great squirrel and woodchuck rifles all. ;)
 
375 or 416 Ruger, they don't require special extra long actions and the 375 especially would be of use in places other then just Africa.
 
Look around. I purchased my 460 Wby for $1,000 + the usual fees and taxes.

It is an accurate shooter too.
 
You ever shoot one?
"...something else I should be looking at?..." Felt recoil and the cost of ammo.
.470 Capstick ammo runs about $20 per shot. A 500 grain bullet has 5,050 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy. Ammo is not made by anybody, commercially. Cu$tom made stuff.
Ditto for a rifle. A modified P-17 rifle, all 12 pounds 8 ounces of it, sold in 2005 for between $2500 and $3500 USD.
.458 Lott is a bit cheaper at roughly $5 and up, each. Runs $100 plus per 20 at Midway. Ditto for .458 Win.
MSRP on a Winchester M70 Safari Express in .458 Win and iron sights is $1559.99. However, the recoil is astounding. A 500 grain bullet at 2100 FPS out of a 9 pound rifle(decidedly too light) is 62.3 ft-lbs. Your Lott with a 500 grain bullet at 2300 FPS out of a 10 lb. rifle has 70.4 ft-lbs. One ounce of shot/slug at 1290 fps, out of a 7.5 pound shotgun, has 20.8.
 
I plan to reload.

Bullets - $1.50 or less
Powder - $0.60
Case - $2.30 / 5 reloads
Primer - $0.03

I'm thinking I can load either under $3 per shot.

The rifle is the sticking point to me. Sure, I want a high end $5000 custom rifle, but the realist side of me says I have 4 options:

1) Buy a controlled round feed 458 Win Mag M70 or similar and have it rechambered to 458 Lott, shortened to 20" and have rear leaf sights, a barrel band swivel and barrel band front sight installed. That is probably a $1200 rifle and $1000 in work.

2) buy a 375 h&h and have it rebarreled and tuned for 470 Capstick. $1000 + $1400 in work

3) Buy a CZ550 in 458 Lott for $1000 and live with it as is or upgrade the stock, smooth the action and shorten the barrel for $1200 more.

4) Order a custom Montana Rifle Company rifle in either caliber customized for ~$2500

So, that is why I'm trying to understand what I can do that gets me close for under say $1500.

My goal is a 20" wood stocked, controlled feed, heavy 12-14 lb dangerous game bolt rifle for range fun. If I could put 3 in 5" at a 100 yds, that would be great accuracy for this kind of rifle.
 
I have a cz550 that was reworked by Montana. They do good work. It sounds like you already know just about what you want. Given your options listed above, I would go to Montana Rifle and get a 458 Lott to built to your specs.

Your reloading will be a lot easier on every front with the 458 bore diameter. Your choice. I dont think we can tell you anything you dont already know.

There is a 5th option. I have another 550 out of the CZ custom shop in St Louis. It is a good rifle. That will make the budget. You could get the barrel length and stock upgrade with a few other nice details. I feel the MRC result might be a little smoother and reliable for the buck. Although, I am satisfied with both and based on what I got, kinda apples and oranges.
 
You might give Kimber a call and see if they could make you a Caprivi with a 20" barrel. They look pretty close to what you need, except the barrel length. It is a question for them, are they small enough operation and willing to cut you a shorter barrel. Doubtful. I dont know, just a WAG.
 
May i ask what and where are we talking about as far as "dangerous" game?

This would help in my recommendation.
 
Weatherby makes beautiful rifles that ahoot big bullets. That's the route I'd go if I wanted something like that.
 
Mauser action.
416 Taylor.
Hard dense wood.
Can be made for a reasonable budget and duplicates the original 416 Rigby ballistics for much less money in the build and in the ammo.
Here is one I made 20 years ago.
416 #2 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
I am still of the opinion that a good 416 Taylor on a surplus Mauser is the best option for a Dangerous Game rifle that can be made for a lower budget. It gives up NOTHING in power, accuracy or reliability to any more expensive gun, (some WAY more expensive) and can be fitted to you at the time of the build.
Dies are cheap. Brass is cheaper, being standard 458 Winchester, bullets are the same as any 416 and so is powder, but you use less of it. 3 rounds in the mag. Handles well and is slimmer in the hand than the Drop Mag actions necessary for 416 Rigbys and 404 Jeffery's and their ilk.
This is my 404.
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
I like it, but the 416 Taylor is easier to handle and less tiring to carry all day.
 
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I was in a similar mind set some years ago. I ended up with two "African" rifles...a Winchester model 70 in .375 H&H and a Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby.
Reloading cuts the costs substantially.
 
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