Longrange Scope

B

Bushwack

Inactive
I'm picking up a new Savage 12BVSS next week in 308 Win. The rifle will be used for long range target shooting mostly & maybe some varments. I'm going to need a good scope, mounts & rings for this rifle. Does anyone have suggestions? Right now I'm looking at the big variables by Springfield Armory.
 
The Springfield veriable scopes look to be good... i.e. they have some nice fetures. I would suggest getting the standard MilDot Retical and not their Modified MilDot/Springfield Retical.

If you want a nice fixed power you may want to look at the Leupold Mark 4 (I perfer the M1 vice the M3. M1 has target knobs wherein the M3 has a Bullet Drop Compensator).

I've got a Mark 4, M1 on my... aa hum... "Varmint" rifle and LOVE IT!!!



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
I gotta agree with Gunny. I have a Leupold mil dot MK4 No. 1. The No. 1 allows for 1/4 MOA adjustments. Sure it's slower than the No. 3, which is designed for quick adjustments under field conditions, but it allows for greater variety of bullet loads and velocities.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Thanks to you both Gunny & Gary
After reading Gunny's reply I found that the Springfield Armory scopes are made in Japan. This made me take a closer look at the Leopold line. The Mark 4 M1 16X40mm looks good but I'm thinking I may need the versatility of a variable. I'm pretty much convinced that the MilDot recticle is the way to go too. Now to find the proper mounts & rings. Thanks guys.
 
Bushwack.

If you want a Variable and a MilDot Reticle then the ONLY one to consider IMO is the Springfield. Who cares where it is made!

The reason is very simple. Springfield has put the MilDot Reticle on the CORRECT focal plain (lens) within their variable scopes. MilDots are used for Ranging, leads, hold overs/unders. This is very important so pay attention class!

Their's is the only one that I know of that when you increase the power setting the reticle increased in relitive size also.

This is important especially with a MilDot! On the other variable scopes you have to be on a specified power setting for the MilDots to subtent correctly (i.e. equal a mil).

With the Springfield, seeing that the MilDots are on the correct focal plain they always subtend a mil. Imagine this... on 5x the MilDots are quite small on a target... as you increase the power the size of the target also increases. With the Springfield so do the MilDots. When you are up to say 12x you see the target as huge... and also the MilDots. That is because they STILL SUBTEND 1 MIL.

With all the others the MilDots subtend 1 Mil at a given power setting (lets use 10x). The reticle is regulated for that power setting and the reticle is on a different focal plain so the reticle stays the same size no matter what the power setting. As you decrease the power from 10X what the MilDots subtend will increase as you decrease the scopes power setting. As you increse the scopes power setting past 10x the MilDots will subtend less. If the MilDots are used correctly and you are on a different power setting then what they are regulated for you will arrive at an INCORRECT answer to the formula... hence possibly missing your target!!!!!



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Gunny

This is something Springfield doesn't advertize & I have seen other's that say the MilDot has to be used at X power setting. This whole MilDot thing is new to me, Uncle didn't issue me a scope with my M-14. Of course in those days with that weapon who needed them? Thanks alot Gunny.
 
ProfJAVA;

I never said the Springfield was a "better" scope then the Leupold. Only that, in the veriable power w/MilDot reticle, is is made the correct way.

I have a Leupold on my "Varmint" Rifle and love it... however it is a fixed power w/MilDo. If I was in the market for a VARIABLE power w/MilDot the only choice is the Springfield.

IMO...

Fix Power - Leupold Mark 4 M1.
Variable - Springfield.

Simple as that!


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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"



[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited July 09, 1999).]
 
As usual, Gunny is correct in that use of the mil dots on a Leupold scope are dependent on the power setting. If you want to go variable, don't play with Leupold.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
In theory, I really like Spribgfield's proprietary reticle. While it's not as accurate (perhaps) as the MilDot, for those who don't use the weapon daily, it may be easier to use...you need only remember the length of the base, height and top of the targeting system.

As I've not used a "precision" rifle in it's intended role, I can't speak to the issue of practical utility.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 09, 1999).]
 
Rich;

I have shot another "proprietary reticle" system that is about the same as the Springfield's. I have two major problems with them..

1 - Scope View Clutter. All the damn circles/squares (depending on make) all over the sight picture is just too much for this dumb Jarhead.

2 - What happens if your target's known mesurment doesn't fit into ANY of the proprietary reticles thingies (technical term here)? Then you are basically guessing on the range. I.E. The proprietary reticles thingies are at each 100 yards. If your target doesn't fit into any of them you will be guessing on range. Granted you could probably guess down to say... 25 yards, but then... what do you use as an aiming point on the reticle.

And I won't even go into Wind Drifts, Leads, Hold Overs/Unders.

Nope... IMO the MilDot is the best (but I may hae been brainwashed to think this... maybe I need phyciatric help to see the light) for the following reasons.

1 - Simple Reticle
2 - Accurate Ranging
3 - NUMEROUS Aiming points in case you don't have time to click in your zero.
4 - Aiming points for leads/drift
5 - Aiming points for hold over/unders

And you only really have to remember a few things to take advantage of all these.

1 - a Mil = 3.6" @ 100 yards, 7.2" at 200, <snip>, 36" @ 1000 yards.
2 - Size of target in yards * 1000 / size of target in mils (as viewed through the scope) = RANGE
3 - The trajectory (how high/low at a give range) of your projectial. (Do I know mine bullets trijectory? Some.. but I cheat... I've got a trajectory card that I tape on the side of my rifle ;) }



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Sprfield offers two model with mil.dot reticle, 4-14x and 6-20x. Which power range would you suggest for a gerenal purposes Rem.700 PSS in 308 Win. Thanks, SierraLima.
 
> 4-14x and 6-20x. Which power range would you suggest for a gerenal purposes Rem.700 PSS in 308 Win. <

Myself?.. I would go with the 4 - 14x. 14X would be more then enough for me... being use to a 10X. I would think the biggest factor would be how much long range shooting you'd be doing (%age wise)(> 500 yards).

You have to remember that with higher magnification you loose field of view and also movement (body) is shown up more in the scope.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Paul;

I think we already have him locked into either a Leupold Mark 4 if a fixed power and a Springfield if a veriable.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Hey, sorry I'm a bit late on this post, however, I just picked up the Springfield 4-14x40 Tactical. I was wondering, for those out there with Springfield scopes, if they needed an extended scope rail to mount the thing. (I'm having an upper built for me currently) The scope seems a bit long. Also what system is best for mounting the scope?
 
Depends on two factors. Eye relief you need and type of firearm you intend to mount it on. More details please.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Sorry I didn't mention before, but I am mounting it on top of an AR-15. Also, I'm a bit new to using scopes, so by eye relief I assume you mean being able to see the max amount field of vision through the opening. I was looking through the scope today and it looked like I needed at least 3-4 inches between my eye and scope.
 
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