I am looking for a different scope for my Mosin and my Ruger 10/22 ,I have regular scopes right now and I dislike them both a lot ?? They are a bit on the cheaper side and too big I think for what I need . i saw a neat video on you tube about mounting a long sight / scout scope and they were smaller and narrower which i liked a lot . What is the difference between them and a regular scope and where would i look for a reasonably priced one ???
Long sight or scout type scope
- Thread starter oldknotty
- Start date
Buy a "quality" low powered scope and mount it conventionally. You can buy a 1-4X20 conventional scope and get a lot better scope than a scout scope selling for the same money. And get a scope that does everything better. On 1X it is faster to use than a forward mounted scope up close and on 4X offers enough magnification for more precise or longer range work
Cheap scopes, and scopes with higher magnification have way too little eye relief and small fields of view. People buy the scout scopes because they think that is the only way to shoot optics with both eyes open. Something like this mounted conventionally will easily work with both eyes open and work much better.
http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-ShotgunMuzzleloader-Scope-P51851.aspx
This is about the cheapest scout scope you'll find. While it is a decent scope, it is lower quality, and more expensive. Not counting the extra expense of the mounts.
http://swfa.com/Burris-275x20-Scout-Scope-P2020.aspx
Cheap scopes, and scopes with higher magnification have way too little eye relief and small fields of view. People buy the scout scopes because they think that is the only way to shoot optics with both eyes open. Something like this mounted conventionally will easily work with both eyes open and work much better.
http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-ShotgunMuzzleloader-Scope-P51851.aspx
This is about the cheapest scout scope you'll find. While it is a decent scope, it is lower quality, and more expensive. Not counting the extra expense of the mounts.
http://swfa.com/Burris-275x20-Scout-Scope-P2020.aspx
Theohazard
New member
I agree with JMR40. I hate scout scopes; the long eye relief makes it much harder for me to acquire the target and take the shot. There's a reason why very few people use them these days.
The reason i was going for the Long eye relief style is because i am old and have old eyes with glasses .I find it kinda hard to use a regular scope so i was looking for an alternative for my range shooting hobby .i was told that older guys sometimes go for the red dot scope ???
I use regular scopes with glasses, what is the exact problem you're having with a regular scope?
Some of the cheaper scopes come with free built in problems (like getting fuzzy as you zoom) which may be a factor as well. In optics you very much get what you pay for. Check out a better quality (yes, more expensive) one before giving up on conventional scopes.
You might look at some of the fixed power scopes or even the mid-sized 2~7 X 32mm types that have a more forgiving eye relief & are smaller & lighter as well.
Some of the cheaper scopes come with free built in problems (like getting fuzzy as you zoom) which may be a factor as well. In optics you very much get what you pay for. Check out a better quality (yes, more expensive) one before giving up on conventional scopes.
You might look at some of the fixed power scopes or even the mid-sized 2~7 X 32mm types that have a more forgiving eye relief & are smaller & lighter as well.
You need to pay attention to the eye relief specs. For the 1-4X Leupold linked, it's 3-3/4" to a little over 4".
Using that optic on a Mosin-Nagant rear sight base mounted rail will most certainly place the rear objective too far forward, unless it's a really long rail.
Quality optics generally have more forgiving eye relief, both to help prevent "scope eye" on high-powered rifles and allow faster/more accurate target acquisition- but using "regular" scopes in a Scout application would be tricky IMO.
Using that optic on a Mosin-Nagant rear sight base mounted rail will most certainly place the rear objective too far forward, unless it's a really long rail.
Quality optics generally have more forgiving eye relief, both to help prevent "scope eye" on high-powered rifles and allow faster/more accurate target acquisition- but using "regular" scopes in a Scout application would be tricky IMO.
My Major problem is that i cannot see down the scope eye piece I only get half a view or i have to twist my head into positions that would make Houdini proud ?? I have very little knowledge of scopes and there types and such stuff . I just want to be able to look down a tube see the whole target and maybe hit it once in a while .I need SIMPLE guys VERY SIMPLE !!! 
I've heard good feedback on the Leatherwood/Hi Lux Long Eye Relief scope for the Mosin. Around $140, after that I think there are Weavers for around $300. The Brass Stacker mount for the Mosin is also a gunsmith free way of mounting it. My Dad has this set up on his Mosin, but I have not been able to try it out. Might tomorrow, if I do I will try to remember to update this post.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Who mounts your scopes, may I ask?
What you are describing sounds a lot like the eye relief is messed up because the scope it too far forward or backwards. I had a "Perfect" combination once a 4X Zeiss scope on a Lee Enfield. Heck it worked with the same scope on a FAL so why not I thought? Turns out the mounts differ enough that what works on the one is to far forward on the other no matter what you do. Like you I got partial views & a twisted neck!
I switched to a 2~8X32 scope & the problem evaporated instantly!
Another thing that might be a problem is "exit pupil" small ones are harder to use than big ones as you're lining up a circle with another circle & as they get smaller they get harder to line up 100%. Try this test & see if it helps. Point the unloaded gun at a blank white wall. Now look through the scope, but from about 18" too far back. lay a ruler across the lit part in the center & measure it. If its less than about 7~8mm there is your problem.
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Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
Oldknotty, to fully understand your question, I have to know whether you mean that a gunsmith is going to drill and tap a forward mount for you on the barrel? If not, then an "IER" (intermediate eye relief) scope won't work on any type of standard-placement mount on that rifle.
However, having said that, there is one scope out there if you can find it on clearance or used (since it's been recently discontinued), which is essentially *BOTH* an IER and a "regular" scope - the Nikon 1.65-5x36mm. It will be labeled either "Omega" or "TurkeyPro" or "Slugmaster". On the lowest setting of 1.65x, you can see through it all the way from around 4.5" out to about 13.5", and on the highest setting of 5x, the eye relief is anywhere from 3" to about 5.5".
So this allows you to mount it in either place - in the conventional place on the standard mounts, at low power, up to about 2.5, it's very easy to "find" the exit pupil from any place on the stock, even if your head is all the way to the rear, and/or if hunting with a very thick coat on. I think this may help you in your situation.
Check www.natchezss.com
But also look at the Leupold VX1, 1-4x20mm scope with a "heavy duplex" reticle - it has very long eye relief on 1x. It's a bit over $200.
The good news is that if you can find one for sale, it will likely be closer to $150 or less than it's original price in the $220 range.
Now if you WERE talking about a new forward mount being installed, then that opens up the Burris fixed 2.75 and Leupold fixed 2.5 scout scopes, in addition to the Nikon Omega, as well as a few others out there.
As far as twisting your head - sorry but I have to ask this due a recent experience with someone that I wouldn't have theretofore thought possible - the other day my friend was looking through one of my rifles, and I had to do a major double take - even though he shoots "right-handed" with his head on the left side of the buttstock, he actually closes his right eye and looks through his left eye, reaching his head way across the top of the stock!!! Now all those stories of him missing deer suddenly made sense. I tried to explain his folly and get him to convert, or to just shoot left-handed, but I doubt it "took" - so, point is, you're not doing *that*, are you?
However, having said that, there is one scope out there if you can find it on clearance or used (since it's been recently discontinued), which is essentially *BOTH* an IER and a "regular" scope - the Nikon 1.65-5x36mm. It will be labeled either "Omega" or "TurkeyPro" or "Slugmaster". On the lowest setting of 1.65x, you can see through it all the way from around 4.5" out to about 13.5", and on the highest setting of 5x, the eye relief is anywhere from 3" to about 5.5".
So this allows you to mount it in either place - in the conventional place on the standard mounts, at low power, up to about 2.5, it's very easy to "find" the exit pupil from any place on the stock, even if your head is all the way to the rear, and/or if hunting with a very thick coat on. I think this may help you in your situation.
Check www.natchezss.com
But also look at the Leupold VX1, 1-4x20mm scope with a "heavy duplex" reticle - it has very long eye relief on 1x. It's a bit over $200.
The good news is that if you can find one for sale, it will likely be closer to $150 or less than it's original price in the $220 range.
Now if you WERE talking about a new forward mount being installed, then that opens up the Burris fixed 2.75 and Leupold fixed 2.5 scout scopes, in addition to the Nikon Omega, as well as a few others out there.
As far as twisting your head - sorry but I have to ask this due a recent experience with someone that I wouldn't have theretofore thought possible - the other day my friend was looking through one of my rifles, and I had to do a major double take - even though he shoots "right-handed" with his head on the left side of the buttstock, he actually closes his right eye and looks through his left eye, reaching his head way across the top of the stock!!! Now all those stories of him missing deer suddenly made sense. I tried to explain his folly and get him to convert, or to just shoot left-handed, but I doubt it "took" - so, point is, you're not doing *that*, are you?
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bamaranger
New member
cross dominant
The condition described is known as cross dominant. My Dad had it, as does my son. I feel fortunate it skipped me. Typical example is right handed, but left master eye.
If one is indeed cross dominant, there are two approaches. Use a patch on the master eye and shoot off the strong shoulder as normal, or...learn to shoot from the off shoulder using the correct master eye.....in the example,... left shoulder, left master eye.
This is all for long guns. A hangun shooter can usually manage by simply presenting the pistol for the master eye with the opposite hand with little trouble. Example, left eye, but right hand.
RE scout scopes, its love or hate, and many seem to hate.
The condition described is known as cross dominant. My Dad had it, as does my son. I feel fortunate it skipped me. Typical example is right handed, but left master eye.
If one is indeed cross dominant, there are two approaches. Use a patch on the master eye and shoot off the strong shoulder as normal, or...learn to shoot from the off shoulder using the correct master eye.....in the example,... left shoulder, left master eye.
This is all for long guns. A hangun shooter can usually manage by simply presenting the pistol for the master eye with the opposite hand with little trouble. Example, left eye, but right hand.
RE scout scopes, its love or hate, and many seem to hate.
Unlicensed Dremel
Moderator
But let me add, generally speaking, it sounds like you may be using junky scopes, and just need a moderate-quality scope, and a lightweight quality scope at that.
In that light, please read and re-read jmr40s advice. I think you'll be much happier.
Get a scope that is considered to be a "minimum quality" scope for centerfires for *most* people who know - usually in the $150-$220 range. I'm talking about Leupold Rifleman, Leupold VX1, Burris Fullfield II, Nikon Prostaff, Bushnell Elite, Sightron S2, etc. I'm not sure which Vortex line would be in this class - maybe someone call tell me.
In that light, please read and re-read jmr40s advice. I think you'll be much happier.
Get a scope that is considered to be a "minimum quality" scope for centerfires for *most* people who know - usually in the $150-$220 range. I'm talking about Leupold Rifleman, Leupold VX1, Burris Fullfield II, Nikon Prostaff, Bushnell Elite, Sightron S2, etc. I'm not sure which Vortex line would be in this class - maybe someone call tell me.
Barnacle Brad
New member
To determine eye dominance, there is a simple test:
Focus on an object in the room, then extend your arms (towards the object), palms out, and form a circle with your hands. Now slowly bring the circle to your face. The eye the circle comes to is your dominant eye.
I am right handed / left eye dominant and use left eye to sight down pistols, unless conciously correct to right, but it is never an issue when shooting rifles, scoped or not. I can do a lot of stuff left handed, but there is something unnatural about shouldering a rifle on the left. If I had to choose a method to correct cross dominance, I would have to staple a patch over my left eye. Yep that would cure me!
Good luck!
Focus on an object in the room, then extend your arms (towards the object), palms out, and form a circle with your hands. Now slowly bring the circle to your face. The eye the circle comes to is your dominant eye.
I am right handed / left eye dominant and use left eye to sight down pistols, unless conciously correct to right, but it is never an issue when shooting rifles, scoped or not. I can do a lot of stuff left handed, but there is something unnatural about shouldering a rifle on the left. If I had to choose a method to correct cross dominance, I would have to staple a patch over my left eye. Yep that would cure me!
Good luck!