Long range shooting - some advice

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AmericanFreeBird

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I posted this on the General forum and someone correctly said I posted in the wrong place. I was thinking of an all purpose, long range, rifle and I like .308 winchester. Since I may use this for hunting fairly large game as well (Elk/Moose) and also want to hit targets in the 400 to 600yd. range I was looking for any advice in what type of calibur and configuration would best fit the bill.

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

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... But as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 
The premier long distance cartridge right now is the .308 Baer... But the girls have been working wonders with the 6.5/284 rounds up in Northern Ohio...
 
Guys, guys, guys,
Why in the world would anyone think you needed a 300 win mag or 300 Baer for 400-600 yard shots. With a 308win and 175 grain bullets it's only 8 and 12.5 MOA elevation respectively.
At 600 yards we regularly do head shots with the 308, and that's a target 5x8 inches.
At 1000 yards the 308 is still the winningest caliber outside of benchrest, and you don't get beat all to hell like you would with either of the other calibers mentioned.
Don't go to extremes, just use the right tool to get teh job done repeatedly. The 308 is the cartridge to do that.

As a side note, I shoot 1000 yard comps with a 22-250 using 80 grain Sierra's, and it will outshoot my 308. Wouldn't hunt with it though.
 
There's just no way the .308 will maintain enough energy to take a chance with an elk or moose past about 200 yds. Even that may not be enough. I'm looking at a trajectory table that shows a 165 gr bullet with 2700 fps at the muzzle dropping below 1900 ft lbs past 200 yds. Below 1600 ft lbs at 300 yds.

I don't have any argument with the accuracy of the .308, but Elk and Moose at 400-600 yds? That calls for a .50 BMG or, in other words, IMHO, very few chamberings can reliably do that job. That doesn't even begin to factor in how much practice the hunter has shooting at that distance.

A moose at 600 yds? You gotta be kidding! I wouldn't even attempt it for fear of sending a wounded animal off to die from my, shall we say, temporary lack of sanity?
 
You could go with the .50 cal if you want, but I don't think that will really give you the performance you are looking for. Here is a picture of me using my favorite long range squirrel gun, a GE 20mm rifle.
760.jpg


I like to use the Carl Gustuv on slightly larger game like deer/elk out to about 600m.
770.jpg
.

Here is a picture of me in Idaho last winter during an elk hunt. I got a really nice bull that time.
656.jpg


And for those of you who like to hunt birds, I have found the Mark 19 to be a very good quail rifle when they are sticking real tight in heavy brush.

350.jpg


So as you can see, I have been quite successful using the more popular and common long range, high power hunting rounds. I agree with Sensop, you gentleman should really reconsider your underpowered rifles for the game's sake.

[This message has been edited by El Rojo (edited October 09, 2000).]
 
Michael: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Guys, guys, guys,
Why in the world would anyone think you needed a 300 win mag or 300 Baer for 400-600 yard shots. With a 308win and 175 grain bullets it's only 8 and 12.5 MOA elevation respectively.
At 600 yards we regularly do head shots with the 308, and that's a target 5x8 inches. ... Don't go to extremes, just use the right tool to get teh job done repeatedly. The 308 is the cartridge to do that.[/quote]

El Rojo: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I agree with Michael, you gentleman should really reconsider your underpowered rifles for the game's sake.[/quote]

Say again?
 
I had no idea I would have to parse the original statement;

".................AND also want to
hit TARGETS in the 400 to 600yd range.....".

For the record I don't advocate 600 yard animals shots on anything larger than a prairie dog. I must also add that I grew up hunting Oregon ellk with a .308, and had no idea that anything larger was required.

Shot placement trumps caliber and velocity every time.
My assumption was common sense shooting ability.
Sorry for the assumption. :)
 
You could try the Sako TRG-S chambered in Lazzeroni's 782 Warbird. But I would only recommend this if you reload your own as the factory ammo starts at $79.99 per 20 and goes up to $99.99 per 20. Its a brute on the shoulder though if you do alot of shooting like I do. Mine is in now getting a muzzle brake put on to tame it some.

I haven't had a chance to shoot it much but it is showing some real promise. Starting load 93grns IMR 7828 pushed a 165grn Sierra SPBT to 3317fps and all three shots went through the same hole. I had already been shooting before this group to sight the scope in and the next group I shot after this one went to hell because I kept flinching from the pain.

You can check it out here. http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_sako.htm
 
I wasn't implying I would attempt to shoot an animal (Elk or otherwise) at 600+yds, just targets. I also want a rifle that would have enough takedown for Elk/Moose at closer (150+ yds) ranges.

Sorry for the confusion, just looking for a good general purpose rifle for hunting and targets and I thank you all for your input.
 
Oh, yeah, and I think we can save that belt fed grenade launcher for "other" preditors! :)
 
American, I hunt elk in Colorado every year (one advantage of living here). Everyone uses the .300 Win Mag or the 7mm Win Mag. Most shots are under 300 yds...normally under 200! I don't think that the Magnums are essential for those ranges, but if you practice very seriously, you may be able to take a longer shot with those calibers. An added benefir to getting a .300 is that if necessary, you can share or borrow ammo from just about anyone.
 
On a more serious reply, I have the REm 700 VS in .308 and I think it will work perfectly for the purposes you are talking about. I have used it to shoot squirrels out to 400 yards, deer at 200-300, and coyotes as well. I could use it for pigs and just about any of the game here in the PRK that I want. The other good thing about this rifle is it shoots really well on paper all the way out to 1000 yards. I shot a 385-6x out of 400 shots(i think it was 6x, I forget, maybe 10x) with it at 1000 yards a month ago, and that was a blast. I think I am going to start shooting silloute as soon as I get the time.

I think for just plinking around at squirrels and other medium to large game, the .308 will work, just minimize that distance to no more than 300 yards. You will be very pleased with the perfomance at all ranges on paper.

But if all else fails, get a 105mm howitzer, they have excellent range and very good knock down power.

[This message has been edited by El Rojo (edited October 10, 2000).]
 
El Rojo

I think you've mastered enough single-barrel weapons. Why not step up to a surplus Russian ZSU-23-4? You could shoot four squirrels at once. Or four rhinos.

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Hoka-hey
 
I was sort of trying to limit myself to weapons with good single shot accuracy. Otherwise I would simply roll my F150 superduty out of the garage with my favorite squirrel gun mounted in the bed. Here is a picture of me and my rig on a recent pig hunt. Enjoy.

phalanx.jpg
 
El Rojo,

I thought the Phalyx was for AA only? You can use it on Elk too? Where do I get mine?
 
I got mine in China Town in Los Angeles. The Chineese have all sorts of good mil surplus goodies. I am saving up for a F-117 so I can do stealth recon of the local hunting grounds. They currently have 3 in stock.
 
Before you use that Phalanx (sp?) better check your F&G regs for max rounds in a magazine. Some states limit mag capacity to 5. That's a pretty short burst from one of those suckers...
 
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