Loading the 45 Winchester Magnum

[Bongo Boy]

I had originally posted this overview over in the Automatics forum, as the continuation of a thread discussing 45 Mag in general. I've got plans to load quite a bit of this fine caliber and collect chrono data as well, so I thought I'd put it all in one place. I hope that folks who have had good success with their 45 Mag loads will discuss them here. I could not find an existing thread on the topic.


All targets shot offhand at 15 yds indoors.

230 gr LRN with 14 gr 800X



I've never seen a group this bad from any gun I own unless the bullets were unstable. I hate these round nose cast bullets anyway. They look like crap and have never shot well in 45 Auto with any load I've tried. At 15 yds today, I'm talking a 12" buckshot pattern. On looking very carefully at the holes, these may in fact be just starting to go tango--several are slightly oblong and leaving lead marks in excess of bullet diameter. My understanding is that 800X doesn't run well at anything much below max, so maybe the loads are too light. Feel and primer flattening doesn't suggest that to me, though.

200 gr RNFP (Lee cast) with 24 gr 4227



-- 28 rds shot immediately after the load above, at 15 yds, 3 1/2" group. My favorite cast bullet for 45. This is a relatively med load I think, and we'll start working with this one to see if it's The One.

200 gr XTP with 16.5 gr 800X



-- Also an awful load. 21 rds produced a splatter group of about 7". Just nasty and a criminal waste of beautiful XTPs. There could be more of the shooter causing the problem here than I'd like to think, though. I see a potential group buried in there.

230 gr LRN with 24 gr 4227



-- 14 rds made a 3.9" group, and finally, the Best of Show:

200 gr XTP with 24 gr 4227



-- 21 rds produced a 2.9" group, and something I would actually be justified in basing a sight adjustment on. Sights actually were adjusted twice during the session, with all shots fired with the orange disc sitting on top of the front sight.

Since I'm not going to be buying XTPs to throw downrange at paper, it will be the 200 gr RNFP Lee bullet that I attempt to nurture along with 4227. Folks say it's The Choice for cast bullets, if you can handle the smoke and smell. I'm okay with the smoke and I love the bouquet.

Now, for other matters.

Much of the 800X loads 'did something' I assume on ejection that banged them up pretty bad...with the side of the case flatted pretty good. These loads also showed some primer flattening, and a few of the heavier ones failed to extract fully. The slide came back all the way, but only pulled the case about 80% out of the chamber. I don't quite get how you get the case nearly all the way out of the chamber, then have the extractor lose it. But, I suppose if the case is free to cock sideways for some reason--a rounded-off extractor might just push the case out of the way rather than pull it straight rearward. Only happened with the heavy 800X loads.

Other than that, the deeper-seated cast bullets all fed with not one issue today, and I may ease off on the seating 0.010" or more, especially hoping to make room for 25 and 26 gr of 4227...which will be a full case indeed.

So 800X is definitely back on my list...of powders that won't be missed. Seldom have I ever had loads that would be too embarrassing to burn up at the range and instead need to be pulled-down.

 

[Bongo Boy]

What I Have Available

All my shooting will be done using the LAR Grizzly with 6 1/2" barrel. My only real objective is to produce one accurate load in the upper end of the expected performance range of the cartridge, but no need to reach the bleeding edge of max loads, published or otherwise. I'm punching paper only.

While I do have a good number of XTPs, they're just 200 gr and, other than what I've loaded already with No 9, I'll save these for 45 Auto sd loads now. That leaves me with Lee 200 gr RNFP cast (plain base):



and this guy:



This you may recognize as an Accurate drawing--it's the Accurate Molds 230R gas check. I have not loaded or fired any of these yet as the gas checks aren't here yet.

For powders that seem to 'fit', right now I have just these:

800X
4227
No 9

with Longshot as well--although I don't know if that one is going to 'work' for 45 Mag or not.

Finally, what I have in the range bag to be chrono'd tomorrow are several loads I have not yet shot, including 22 gr, 23 gr and 24 gr of No 9 under the Lee RNFP bullet, and what I expect will be the last of my 800X efforts: 17.5 gr under the 200 gr XTPs.

With the 230 gr gas checks, I'd like to see 1,300 fps maybe, with 4227 or No 9. I'm not sure that's doable with the 6" barrel or not. Much of the published data I have is from the Speer No 11 manual, which was all clocked from a 10" Wildey where they were able to make 1,432 fps with 4227 and a jacketed 230 gr.

Any favorites out there?

 

[TimSr]

I don't load or shoot 45 Win Mag, but I do tons of revolver magnums.

Lost of stuff made for 45 ACP, lead or jacketed, will be too soft for magnum loads. You didn't mention the hardness of your cast bullets, but a BRN of 18 seems to work very well on up past 1400fps with no gas check, at least the ones I get from Missouri Bullets. 4227 should work well, but I think you'll do better with heavier bullets in cast, than lighter ones, just by keeping the velocity within the cast bullet rating. I've never seen an XTP perform badly in anything, but like you said, awful expensive for punching paper.

 

[Bongo Boy]

Unfortunately, I don't buy cast bullets and don't really know what the hardness of my lead is. I try to buy wheel weight lead, but of course I seldom know what I'm actually getting. The last batch was mostly from a sailboat keel, and it is quite unusual--casts nicely, pours nicely, and finishes extremely shiny no matter what temperature I run it at.

Anyway, from that lead, I've cast a few hundred 230 gr gas check bullets--just because I wanted to, not because I thought the gas checks would solve any problem I have. They're coming out quite nice:



I'll initially be running these with No 9, because that's what's in the hopper. I may get an opportunity in the next week or so to get the chrono set up and see what everything is doing, but have not been able to get that done as planned.

What I've been casting and shooting in 44 Mag has been doing quite well--mostly 800X and 4227 loads, with the 4227 doing far better for accuracy. I don't know the velocity--240 gr RNFP and 250 Keith--but I have seen some lead deposits on the outside of the barrel around the ports (this is a ported 629). The bore really doesn't look bad and it isn't what I'd consider lead fouling to worry about. We'll shoot and see.

This is how the gas check bullets are looking, compared to the 200 gr Lee bullets:

 

[Bongo Boy]

Still no opportunity to get to the outdoor range to chrono anything, but I was able to squeeze in a little range time today, Here's what I pumped downrange:

1. 17,5 gr 800X under 200 gr XTP
2. 21 gr AA9 and the 230 gr cast gas checks
3. 22 gr AA9 and 200 gr XTP
4. the 14 gr 800X and 230 gr cast RN

I started the session with the loads I already knew would stink (the 800X and the cast round nose), but wanted to see if some of the poor performance last time was just the shooter. Sure enough, it seems at least a good bit of it was. At 10 yds this time vs 15 before, was able to manage, with all my effort, a 6" 'group'. Far better than last time, but my objective quickly turned to sending this stuff downrange as quickly as possible.

Load #3 above is a sweet one--two 7-shot groups at 10 yds offhand that both had the potential for 1" groups. I managed 2" groups but I have every confidence #9 is going to be a real winner.

Load #2 was not that great a performer--a 2 1/2" group with a single flyer...but by this time, I'd fired quite a few rounds, and these babies do tend to tire this old man out just a bit. I think in full recoil, the weapon is rotated to the left about 10-15 degrees. Will have to develop even more strength in the weak hand.

All in all, the XTPs really seem to be the sweet spot of bullets, despite being the lightweight 200 grainers.

More to come, as I talk to myself here about this fantastic, exciting and highly capable round. I thought 10mm was the Last Word in auto pistol rounds--while it does have the advantage of being actually practical for about 10 times as many applications, this is an awesome cartridge that truly deserves to surface in a platform that makes even the die-hard wheelgun man think twice.

Near as I can tell, blowing these cast slugs downrange at upwards of 1,200-1,400 fps, with or without gas checks, does simply not seem to be a problem. Either I'm blessed by the Gods or am just that much less fussy about the alleged vagaries of shooting cast, but I think the blister on my right thumb is more of a problem in shooting this gun that is supersonic lead.

 

[Bongo Boy]

Big Day at the Range

Finally time to chronograph some loads and today was a lovely day at the public range. Below are the statistics--although I list the Accurate Molds bullet as the 230B when in fact it's the 230R gas check bullet shown above. The 210 gr RNFP is also shown above, next to the 230R. Both have turned out to be great in even fairly heavy dooty loads.

Here's what we got:



String 4 asterisked above was possibly the most accurate--all shooting was done offhand at about 15-20 yds and by String 7 or 8 I'd say I was getting a bit tired and the hands had taken a bit of a beating. Still, all of the green highlighted loads were not only a blast to shoot, 'felt nice', but printed good groups for me and are definitely on my list to zero in on.

These are among the first 300-MP loads I've shot, I think the first in the .45 Win Mag. So far, this seems like an excellent propellant in the cartridge, with a very nice recoil push. I think you can see from the data for it, it starts to come on in the higher end of the narrow range I was experimenting with--and doesn't do so well at the low end. Some of the rounds fired in the two 900 fps strings made me actually stop and check for squibs--the stuff doesn't even seem to be burning in this pressure regime.

The light loads didn't hit too well, but also gave that 'sloppy slide' feel when you're barely cycling the gun--I can safely check these off the list of things to do. But when loaded up a bit, I can say I'm very pleased to have laid in 12 lbs or so of 300-MP and will be loading a lot more of it in the very near future.

- Comparing what I can in the table above to the limited published data I find, Speer No 11 has its 225 or 230 gr jacketed bullets making 1,301 fps with 23.0 gr of 4227, although in the 10" Wildey barrel.

- Hornady 9th Ed has 21.4 gr of AA9 making 1,300 fps with a 200 gr bullet in a 5" Grizzly, compared to my 21.3 gr, 1,385 fps with a 230 gr and 6" barrel. This seems a little suspect.​

Long live 45 Mag.