Going to start reloading for my 357 mag soon. I'll be doing minor deer hunting with it and any critters that walk into the back yard. I'm trying to reload very cheap. I was wondering if I could reload lead bullets for it and would a lead bullet be alright for deer at short ranges. I'm new to reloading and never messed with lead bullets unless I was shooting my smoke pole. I just need some info on reloading lead. The reason being is I found really cheap lead bullets for sale. The gun is a Dan Wesson 6 1/2 barrel
Loading lead 357 mag
- Thread starter bungiex88
- Start date
What you can use lead bullets for depends on what the bullets ARE.
Lead bullets can range from dead soft swaged or cast (even pure lead), suitable for velocities up through 8-900fps, a little harder alloy for higher speeds, up to "hard" cast slugs capable of being driven to full magnum speeds without problems*.
*assumes proper fit to your bore
There is a Brinell scale for hardness, but most folks only know the higher the number the harder the bullet.
I use the "rule of thumb", actually my thumbnail. If you can dig your thumbnail into the slug, and it leaves a noticeable dent, the slug is "soft"
If pressing hard with your thumbnail only leaves a slight bright spot, the slug is "hard", and suitable for use at higher speeds than the soft one.
Those "cheap" lead bullets might be either hard, or soft, or inbetween, and might be a bargain, or a waste of your money depending on what you want.
ok, hard slugs do shoot just fine at soft slug speeds, so in that regard, no waste. Just don't look for expansion. but if you want or need hard slugs, don't buy soft ones, that is a waste.
Lead bullets can range from dead soft swaged or cast (even pure lead), suitable for velocities up through 8-900fps, a little harder alloy for higher speeds, up to "hard" cast slugs capable of being driven to full magnum speeds without problems*.
*assumes proper fit to your bore
There is a Brinell scale for hardness, but most folks only know the higher the number the harder the bullet.
I use the "rule of thumb", actually my thumbnail. If you can dig your thumbnail into the slug, and it leaves a noticeable dent, the slug is "soft"
If pressing hard with your thumbnail only leaves a slight bright spot, the slug is "hard", and suitable for use at higher speeds than the soft one.
Those "cheap" lead bullets might be either hard, or soft, or inbetween, and might be a bargain, or a waste of your money depending on what you want.
ok, hard slugs do shoot just fine at soft slug speeds, so in that regard, no waste. Just don't look for expansion. but if you want or need hard slugs, don't buy soft ones, that is a waste.
I have been using Cast Performance Bullets 38 Caliber (358 Diameter) 180 Grain Lead Wide Flat Nose Gas Check with good results. I am loading them over Aliant 2400 for 1133fps. They hit hard and get great penetration. I plan on trying their 185gr in the near future.
Read 44 AMP's post. Those exceptionally cheap lead bullets are usually cold swaged soft lead suitable for very light target loads.
I love and practice the concept of cheap plinking rounds, but when you are going to shoot a deer with it, the cost of the bullet should not be a factor.
People do hunt with heavier, hard cast flat nose bullets, as they penetrate well. On the down side, they don't leave very big holes or bleed as much.
I'm on the other side, use and XTP, and restrict it to rib shots at 50 yards max.
For plinking, the cheaper the better. You just have to load it within the bullet's hardness limitations.
You can drive "soft" cast lead bullets at "Deer Slaying" velocities without leading, if they fit your gun. I have personally used plain old wheel weight alloy for a 160 gr. LSWC over a max. load of True Blue. No leading, as accurate as I can be. The key is bullet fit. My revolver has .359" cylinder throats, so I sized my bullets to .359" (groove diameter is .3575". Guesstimated velocity with a bit under 10.0 gr of True Blue was over 1300 fps. No leading...
+1 What .44 AMP said.
Reload and shoot some of those "bargain" bullets, and see what velocities they work best at. If they like being pushed fast, then you're in good shape. If they don't, then you STILL have a good supply of projectiles for practice ammunition. If they seem to work better at lower velocities, find someone to test their hardness. If the BRINELL hardness is much over 12, check the bullet-to-bore fit.
Alliant 2400 and .357 loads go together like peanut butter and jelly, it seems, but I've never gotten 2400 to burn completely in a barrel shorter than 7 1/2" (perhaps it's not necessary). I worked up a 7.8gr./Herco/158gr. LSWC or RNFP that delivered 1300 + f/s from a 6" barreled Dan Wesson. It gave a fair amount of muzzle flash in low-light conditions, but nothing like the 2400 loads.
Reload and shoot some of those "bargain" bullets, and see what velocities they work best at. If they like being pushed fast, then you're in good shape. If they don't, then you STILL have a good supply of projectiles for practice ammunition. If they seem to work better at lower velocities, find someone to test their hardness. If the BRINELL hardness is much over 12, check the bullet-to-bore fit.
Alliant 2400 and .357 loads go together like peanut butter and jelly, it seems, but I've never gotten 2400 to burn completely in a barrel shorter than 7 1/2" (perhaps it's not necessary). I worked up a 7.8gr./Herco/158gr. LSWC or RNFP that delivered 1300 + f/s from a 6" barreled Dan Wesson. It gave a fair amount of muzzle flash in low-light conditions, but nothing like the 2400 loads.
Like most have mentioned the alloy will determine the upper end of your velocity to a point, then fit and the pressure of your load will take over.
Shooting cast is simply a balancing act of getting things into the right order to balance out and work like you need them to. Some powders with X alloy will shoot just fine but others wil lead up terribly. Same with the alloy, some will shoot fine with everything under the sun, but some won't shoot with anything but a specific low velocity load.
I hunt with a variety of handguns from .357 up through the 454. As such when I started out casting I initially wanted to duplicate the jacketed loads I knew worked from each revolver. This said that involved some alloy testing which included both successful and miserable failures. So far I have managed to get within a couple hundred feet per second of my top end velocities with all but the 44 which I haven't messed with much, mainly due to having so much fun with the others.
In my .357 I found if I wanted the top end velocities, I had to use the slower burning powders for starts, and use an alloy with at least around a 10'ish BHN. Through some small trial blends I managed to even get an alloy which expands very well up to just over 1300fps, which can be seen here,
M p 358-640 hp The media in which these were shot into was probably akin to being driven through the thinner part of a shoulder blade on a deer. They were shot through the lid of a 6 gallon plastic bucket which was filled with very fine dampened sand similar almost to talc powder. When I say damp, it had about 8-10 oz of water soaked into the whole full bucket of sand so just wet enough to clump if you grabbed a hand full and squeezed it but not wet. I have found this will give me a very similar results to bullets I have recovered from deer and hogs.
Anyway, I suggest you try the powders like Unique, 2400, AA-9 is what I use but #5 is also a vbery good one if you have either. Test your loads with a clean barrel between each round so you will detect if your going to have any leading. If you find that you see a build up in the4 first inch or so of your barrel after 5 rounds you might as well try another powder or drop that particular load, or call that the top end for which ever load you have worked up to. If you see lead on the muzzle end your loosing your lube and might simply need to add some tumble lube via Lee Alox. It is simple to use and cheap aliet a bit messy. It does however work, I have used it to drive some 454 bullets up to 1700'ish FPS with it and no ill effects.
When you start out just load 5 rounds up from the start data, increase in .2gr increments. Open your cylinder after each shot and look down the muzzle to verify no leading is started in the breech end of the barrel. It will be pretty easy to see and look like skid marks in the rifling. In a worst case it will look like this, (this was after only 4 rounds)
I knew going into this the alloy might not handle the load but I was testing and when testing you have some failures. It does scrub out pretty easily if you catch it at this stage though, however the more you lay down the harder it gets to remove. Worst case get some Chore Boy Copper pads and wrap a string of it around a bore brush and go to town. Just make sure you check the pads with a magnet as there is a LOT of it out there which is only copper coated or plated steel. You don't want to use that in your bore.
That said if you see this, everything should be fine, this one had more than a hundred rounds through it when the pic was taken,
Good luck, hope this helps and get back with results and or questions after you get a few down range.
Shooting cast is simply a balancing act of getting things into the right order to balance out and work like you need them to. Some powders with X alloy will shoot just fine but others wil lead up terribly. Same with the alloy, some will shoot fine with everything under the sun, but some won't shoot with anything but a specific low velocity load.
I hunt with a variety of handguns from .357 up through the 454. As such when I started out casting I initially wanted to duplicate the jacketed loads I knew worked from each revolver. This said that involved some alloy testing which included both successful and miserable failures. So far I have managed to get within a couple hundred feet per second of my top end velocities with all but the 44 which I haven't messed with much, mainly due to having so much fun with the others.
In my .357 I found if I wanted the top end velocities, I had to use the slower burning powders for starts, and use an alloy with at least around a 10'ish BHN. Through some small trial blends I managed to even get an alloy which expands very well up to just over 1300fps, which can be seen here,
M p 358-640 hp The media in which these were shot into was probably akin to being driven through the thinner part of a shoulder blade on a deer. They were shot through the lid of a 6 gallon plastic bucket which was filled with very fine dampened sand similar almost to talc powder. When I say damp, it had about 8-10 oz of water soaked into the whole full bucket of sand so just wet enough to clump if you grabbed a hand full and squeezed it but not wet. I have found this will give me a very similar results to bullets I have recovered from deer and hogs.
Anyway, I suggest you try the powders like Unique, 2400, AA-9 is what I use but #5 is also a vbery good one if you have either. Test your loads with a clean barrel between each round so you will detect if your going to have any leading. If you find that you see a build up in the4 first inch or so of your barrel after 5 rounds you might as well try another powder or drop that particular load, or call that the top end for which ever load you have worked up to. If you see lead on the muzzle end your loosing your lube and might simply need to add some tumble lube via Lee Alox. It is simple to use and cheap aliet a bit messy. It does however work, I have used it to drive some 454 bullets up to 1700'ish FPS with it and no ill effects.
When you start out just load 5 rounds up from the start data, increase in .2gr increments. Open your cylinder after each shot and look down the muzzle to verify no leading is started in the breech end of the barrel. It will be pretty easy to see and look like skid marks in the rifling. In a worst case it will look like this, (this was after only 4 rounds)
I knew going into this the alloy might not handle the load but I was testing and when testing you have some failures. It does scrub out pretty easily if you catch it at this stage though, however the more you lay down the harder it gets to remove. Worst case get some Chore Boy Copper pads and wrap a string of it around a bore brush and go to town. Just make sure you check the pads with a magnet as there is a LOT of it out there which is only copper coated or plated steel. You don't want to use that in your bore.
That said if you see this, everything should be fine, this one had more than a hundred rounds through it when the pic was taken,
Good luck, hope this helps and get back with results and or questions after you get a few down range.
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Yep, depending on what one considers "soft". A lot of casters, both home casters and commercial casters believe "harder is better" and produce bullets of 18+ BHN, and IIRC I've seen BHN 22 offered for sale. My WW alloy stash runs about 10-12 BHN (I had some 40+ year old weights and mebbe some junk/scrap lead mixed in) so the bullets would be considered "soft" by today's standards for cast bullets. Swaged bullets are another story, like 6-8 BHN...