Loading BP .45 Colt

M

mcg6637

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I've never loaded black powder cartridge before but I want to load some of my .45 Colts that way. I was looking at loading data from American Pioneer for their FFFg powder which used 22 grs. by volume. My problem is "by volume." I have scales but that's by weight. I have Lee powder dippers - is that measured by volume? How do I go about getting the right charge? I've even read "just fill up the case until the seated bullet will compress the powder slightly." Hummm!
A second question is that I understand I don't need lube wads. I'm using 230 gr. lead round nose bullets with no lube grooves. Am I correct?
 
I don't have personal knowedge of the cartridge Colt's, but I do know a bit from reading and listening and watching.

Coat the bullets with a hard lube such as Alox. The grooves are not necessary for that cartridge. Fillers and/or wads are not necessary for a standard load. You use those only to insure the powder is compressed if you are shooting reduced loads . The old standard load was "fill ér up and stomp the bullet in." The reality wasn't quite that cavalier, but you get the idea.

Black powder and the equivalents are ALWAYS measured by volume. Sorry for the shout, but that is very important.

Now, somebody who really knows the subject can chime in. :D

Pops
 
Read the part of the instructions that comes before the table with the grains volume nonsense. I copy it here for your convenience:

General loading instructions are to fill the case with loose American Pioneer™ just to the point where the base of the bullet will very slightly compress the powder, about 1/16", when it is seated. NO FURTHER COMPRESSION is recommended or advisable and will result in increase pressures and erratic velocities! It is important that no air space or gap be left when the bullet is seated, and the use of fillers is not recommended for general cartridge shooting, but is often required and acceptable for achieving the lower velocities desired in Cowboy Action Shooting. The filler should be composed of an acceptable material as recommended by the Single Action Shooting Society. No grease cookie or lube wad is needed, and the use of one will lower the performance. Regular bullet lube is fine - no special bullet lube is required. A good consistent crimp will help give consistent results.
Click to expand...

What I would do is to mark a case for seating depth, put in enough APP to fill it slightly above that, then dump it out and see if there were a dipper the right size. If not weigh it to see how much you really have and load them all that way. Either way will get you adequately uniform loads.

The business about "grains volume" came about when fake powders less dense than real black powder started coming out. They are manufactured so that the same volume of fake gives about the same results as that volume of black even though it weighs less. Now it is worse with pelletized fake. A "50 grain" pellet neither weighs 50 grains nor takes up the same volume as 50 grains of black, but it is supposed to shoot like it. It is getting as bad as trying to figure out "dram equivalent" for shotgun shells.
 
If your buying store bought Oregon Trail Lazer cast or Meitzer bullets they are molly lubed ..meaning lubed for smokeless powder ..SPG lube is for black Powder and some subs ... The APP powder will shoot fair with the Molly lubed bullets , but the thing when loading the cases don`t leave an air space between the powder and bottom of the bullet ..I load 30 Grs of APP 3f behind 230 and 250 GR bullets , this load gives a little com0pression on the powder ....when I load with 777 2f I drop down to 27 GRs because it doesn`t seem to like the compression . To check your volume loads use a powder measure for loading muzzle loading guns ...these will give you the volume .
One of the Lee dippers is probally close enought but I`m not sure which one ..I`ve never used mine with the B/P and subs.
If you want to load B/P and Subs light in the 45 cases like the 22 grs you`ll need to use a filler to take up the air space .
 
Many Thanks

Sometimes the most obvious things---- I shoot black powder cap & ball as well as muzzle loaders and I never thought about using those measures -- Duh!!
Appreciate the eye opener!
 
FYI - Conversion chart

See Chart #1 for the APP ffg conversion weight reference:

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

Since the APP ffg weight listed in the chart is not the exact same granulation as APP fffg, you can add a grain or two (5 -10%) more.
The chart shows that APP ffg weighs 85% of the equivalent volume of Goex ffg [or 15% less].
Since you already realize that the loading procedure for BP cartridges is usually done by cartridge case volume, the usefulness of this chart is probably limited to other ML purposes. But it's still a handy reference.
At least you can figure out the relative BP strength of the load that you're shooting by using weight.
 
My crackpot idea was to take an extra, fired case (with the fired primer still in), mark on its side a line 1/16 above where the base of the bullet would fall, cut the case down to that mark, solder on a wire handle, and there you are- a custom powder dipper for the correct volume of powder. You'd have to use the same make and caliber of cartridge, of course.
 
"just fill up the case until the seated bullet will compress the powder slightly."

Yep, that's pretty much how it's done for a full power load. It isn't real critical, just don't leave any air space between the powder & bullet. If you're using genuine black powder, the bigger the grease groove, the better. APP doesn't need any lube at all, and also doesn't like much compression. Just like real BP though, don't leave any air space in the case. You can also use a lube wad under the bullet with real BP if you don't have a big enough grease groove, just be careful of shooting into dry grass or trees, cuz the saturated felt wad sometimes catches fire. If you want to use a reduced load, top off the reduced powder charge with Cream of Wheat or grits or somesuch, but under no circumstances leave an air space.
 
Hafoc,
That doesn't sound like a half baked idea to me, in fact that is the way i do and I'm not alone. I bout a bunch of powder measures at a gun show that were made from various cases with flat brass handles soldered to them.
 
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