Loading 38 issues maybe?

W

Wendyj

New member
Got my dies today. Lee 4 Die set. Bought a hundred Hornady 125 grain xtps. Been loading bottleneck for awhile now and this was all new. Loaded one at a time for first three. First one in lever action Rossi pulled the trigger and no go. Opened the lever and bullet was in barrell and powder had to be dumped out of gun. Loaded second and put in smith 686. No boom and bullet had to be pushed out to get the cylinder to spin. About gave up.
I loosened the mouth flare a little and tuned the crimp die one full turn. Every die is set to Lee directions. Next 4 fired in rifle and only tried one in the revolver. Using 4.3 grains of HP -38 to start with. Lee recommends backing the mouth die off the shell holder one full turn. I think I gave the mouth too much flare or didn't crimp tight enough one but they look decent now. Still have to fire a revolver full to check it out. Hard to do around my house. Any ideas or info I may be doing wrong or was doing wrong.
 
was the primer firing as it should? you seem to have plenty of a powder charge. i am suprised that they were able to load into a revolver, and yet not fire. i would think if the crimp/flare was that horrendous, they wouldn't fit in the chamber, if they did and the bullet was intact at all, it should have at least fired.

after reading your post again, are you saying they DID fire the second time around?
 
For the first try where the rounds didn't ignite, it kind of sounds like the bullets were loaded too long and the primers not deep enough.
Mebbe.
 
Sierra manual--
starting load for 125gr with Win. 231 ( same as HP-38 ) is 4.8gr
you state you are using 4.3gr

in a pistol, .5gr can make a huge difference especially on the lower end of recommended powder charge
 
Primers were deep. Winchester primers. Primer did take a hit but bullet came out of the case. Thinking crimp wasn't tight enough and hammer knocked bullet out the case. Since last post I forced 4 out of the revolver and all went off ok. This powder is pretty clean. I loaded up about 10 more. Going to waste the 38 brass before loading the 357 up. Hodgdon website was only place I could find this powder and load. Not in my Hornady book. Sierra manual in same weight doesn't show it either. Sounds like a cap gun in my little carbine. I originally turned the crimp die a 1/2 turn per Lee manual. The full turn seemed to have done it. The crimp looks better than my factory. I'm watching and checking on 2 scales to make sure I don't double charge. Never had that issue with the bottlenecks. The Lee powder thrower will throw a very consistent 4.3 grains but I'm weighing each one individually. Other posts were correct that the flow through powder die woos full of grease. Had to spray full of caseys gun scrubber and swab it out. Nothing sticks in it now. Hornady shows + p loads but not with this powder. Sure does have better accuracy in my revolver. I expanded the case mouth so the bullet would sit in it probably too much also. Backed it off some and all seems to be ok. I'm not going to be in a hurry with something this new. Value my hands and eyes too much. Still a a little confused of how much to flare the mouth but I'm sure I was over flaring it. Sorry post is so long. I read Amy instructions and manuals but there is a lot of knowledge here.
 
Crimp or no crimp is should still fire. Only reason crimp is needed in a revolver is to prevent bullet jump on the remaining rounds in the cylinder which in turn will jam the gun. If the primer looks like it was struck but didn't ignite chances are it wasn't seated all the way. Make sure they are seated all the way not just flush with the base of the brass.
 
Primer was struck and seated plenty deep. I seated them on the press. Although last 10 I used the hand primer which seats just as good and a whole lot easier than the rifle cases. Arthritis and old age just ain't no fun. After the one in the handgun didn't fire I pulled th bullet halfway out by hand and used kinetic to get the last part out.
 
125gr bullets in .38 Special -- especially jacketed or plated and ESPECIALLY in revolvers can just be a pain to deal with.

Why?!
Because they are light for caliber and the flash gap just offers WAY too easy an escape valve for much needed pressure.

If you load "light to medium" with jacketed 125's in .38 Spl... it's pretty much your very best chance to stick a bullet.

Consider that quite often:
you may be planning to shoot them from a .357 revolver, so with 125's, start at published max. Even better if your published source also offers a .38+P load.
 
I wanted some 158 or better but this was all they had today. Would prefer lead for the 38. I ordered some 158 xtps from Midway but they aren't here yet. Question I guess. Do I have to lube lead bullets before seating.
 
I haven't had an issue with 125gr even at the starting load, using the same powder you are using. I even load 110's at the starting with hp38. I don't think that was your problem, you can go even way below published minimums with that powder/bullet combo. I think if the issue wasn't primer related, and your sure it went off, then you must have literally pulled the bullet apart when cycling your rifle, not sure how that can happen, but outside of primers I don't see what else the problem could be. I shoot 125gr in a 38spl case out of a 24" rossi with as little as 3gr of HP38, plated. but I am no expert, but have played around with tons of 38spl's, especially light charged ones.

if you are buying cast bullets, no you do not need to lube. they will have visible lube in the rings or they will be coated. if you cast you own then you'll need to lube on your own
 
That's probably correct. When I levered the rifle back the bullet was in the barrel and only brass came back. The revolver done the same thing. I couldn't open the cylinder and had to push bullet back in brass to get cylinder open. That's the bullet I pulled out most of the way by hand. All this stopped when I closed the flare down and tightened the crimp. Last bullets have all been fine so far. Straight wall cases are all new to me. Hoping to get the hang of it with these and move on to 45-70. I wish Hodgdon showed +p loads. I could up them some to get some more velocity out of revolver and rifle.
 
hodgdon does have +p loads. in the print manual and the online "data center".

just use the drop down menu when selecting cartridge and it's right after .38 special
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

next time you load, and your using jacketed bullets, note that you barely need a flare at all. not even a visible flare for a jacketed, jus keep going down until you can hand push a bullet barely in. lead bullets come sized .001 larger diameter, at least, they will need more flare because they are larger and can be deformed by the case walls.
 
Bottom out your seating die against your shell plate and then loosen it a quarter of a turn.

First primer may have been contaminated. Did you perhaps touch the anvil with your finger. That is known to kill the primer. All the others went off so it looks like that was your only problem.

Good luck and good shooting.

Welcome to the world of reloading.
:D
 
If primers are in fact igniting, (which would seem to be the case if the bullets are jumping out) and powder is not igniting, it usually means either the flash hole is obstructed (which is rare) or the powder in front of the flash hole is contaminated with case lube, or moisture, making it hard to ignite. It also occurs with magnum powders, usually from too much empty space between powder and primer combined with insufficient primer for the application. I doubt that it is possible to seat a pistol bullet loose enough to knock the bullet out with the hammer or firing pin without primer ignition.

With your mention of grease in the powder die, and the cleaning that occurred immediately makes me wonder if your case was completely dry and free of any grease or case lube when you dropped the powder in, or if the powder you dropped had any grease or gun scrubber contamination.

I don't use HP-38, but eve fast ball powders can a little more sensitive to empty space in the case. Since your guns are rated at +P which is listed at 5.3gr, there is no reason not to at least bump up a half grain to standard .38 max.

Case should be belled ONLY just enough to get the base of the bullet started. The case will expand as you are seating the bullet, and just like rifle rounds, the case tenion has a lot more to do with the bullet being held than the crimp.
 
Agree with Tim.
The only bullet I ever loaded that stuck in the barrel was a 125 gr BBI and 4.3 gr HP38. Just too much air space for the primer flash to reach the powder. The ones that shot were erratic in report, recoil, and POI. I deep seated the rest of that batch to reduce the dead space and they shot ok, but I will stick to 140-160 gr .38s which have always been reliable.

I know Hodgdon shows that as a starting load but they are shooting under laboratory conditions.

If you have a modern made gun, the maximum load for .38 Special is really quite mild and there is no real reason to sneak up on it from a much lighter load. Do NOT apply this logic to other calibers, the .38 Special is, well, special.
 
Thanks for the info. I would say that the powder was most likely contaminated due to the grease. After cleaning with the gun scrubber and running several dry patches through it the powder was flowing great. I had read that on the forum somewhere about grease in the expanding powder filling die. Was stupid on my part not to clean them before ever starting. I will increase the powder to mid range of + p specs. I just started low since it was my first straight wall cases. I can very well see how you could double charge one if not extremely careful.
 
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