Loaded or not?

N

n5lyc

New member
I clean peoples guns for extra cash, some people (Duck hunters are the worst) used it last season and want it cleaned & lubed just before this years season.

So some people pay me cash, some give me old muzzle loaders in stead of payment.

On the average 4 out of 5 muzzle loaders i get still have a charge in them.

Even bought a .45 derringer from a pawn shop for $40 that had a charge in it, and it had been in his display case for 6 months. :eek:

What are some of your experiences in finding charged Muzzle Loaders as to unloaded ones when you buy one?

And some times a ball puller just doesn't work well on some of the newer bullet designs, so how did you get it out?

I never put powder under the nipple of a unknown muzzle loader, because i never know what they had in there for powder or charge.
in rifles / single shots, i remove the nipple, soak the breech end in hot water, then use a grease fitting & grease gun to move the ball/sabot.
in revolvers i remove the nipple, remove the powder and use a slim brass rod to push out the ball.

Share your info.

Ian
 
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Did an inventory on a collection that belonged to the widow of a former classmate two years ago. Several of the guns had loaded magazines, a few had chambered rounds. He had half a dozen bp revolvers, all of which were charged and capped, hammers down on a capped and charged chamber.

The worst one was a loaded Red 9 Broomhandle. I had absolutely no idea how to unload it safely. Put it in a steel briefcase he had in the garage and took it to a dealer that specialized in WWII milsurp. He was astounded, but managed to safe the gun.

Not a pleasant expericence.
 
The CO2 dischargers work well for unloading m/l rifles. For c&b revolvers I pull the nipples, dump the powder and use a small brass rod to tap the rb out.
 
Ooops

When I was active duty stationed in USS Peterson, DD969, one of the Gunners Mates was showing off to his girlfriend one evening. He accidentally cycled a five inch round into the breach of Mount 51 (Forward five inch gun mount) He was one step away from firing the gun mount accidentally.

We were able to remove the powder charge. They are separate from the projectile but no way to get the projectile itself out of the bore.

The gunner did not remember what kind of projectile he had in the bore. Was it blind, lined and plugged? or was it an "I mean business" round?

Of course the skipper reported the situation to the squadron commander. Loaded gun mounts while tied up to the pier is a no-no. And this is not the kind of thing one tries to cover up. We got the ship underway the next day for two days simply to clear the round through the muzzle.

Gunner's Mate reduced in rate. Non punitive letter in the Chief Gunner's Mate's record and the Gunnery Officer's service jacket. And the skipper made a point of steering clear of the squadron commander for a couple of weeks.
 
As far as M/L's go, have pulled more PBR's and Sabots than I can remember. Also three stuck rods and one broken ramrod tip. Whenever we teach a class, I like to have at least one mis-fire as a teaching experience. It's a great teaching tool for newer instructors. There is more than one way to skin this cat and I use a combination of methods to pull the load. You have to be careful, especially with real BP. I may start out with removing the nipple and putting a small charge the ahead of the nipple, reinstalling the cleaned nipple and recapping. Or I may go to my Co2 pusher and last resort is my screw jag. when I push or pull, I usually swamp the bore with good old #13 or simular solvent. Would add that during class, we only teach thse methods to newer instructors and not the students. For the students, I refer them to their guns instruction manual. Some folks in here have used a grease gun. I have never had to unload a C&B revolver.


As far as breech loaders, Have run into a few but no problems.

I once read that museums routinely run into loaded M/L's and they put the barrel in a vice and apply a torch to the breech area and wait for the fun to begin. I would never do this because at my age, I couldn't take that kind of fun. I also understand that some civil war M/L's had multiple loads, say five or six. It's easy to understand how this could happen, in the heat of battle.

Be Safe !!!
 
Naval gun

In the Army we would have had to inventory the remaining rounds, to find out what round was missing from the assigned inventory.

I have been present for a 120mm smooth bore go off, pulled the chain on a 155, fired a recoiless rifle, a LAW, and been present for the launch of a MLRS, and watched an old SGT York M247 AA gun fire, (you can defend your flank with the empty shells it ejects)

But I always wanted to be on deck to see a 16 incher go off,
330 lbs of powder and a ton projectile. it probably don't get any better than that.

Ian
 
But I always wanted to be on deck to see a 16 incher go off,
330 lbs of powder and a ton projectile. it probably don't get any better than that.
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I don't think so as one time a couple of us snuck up to the 01 level during one of our firing excercises and when that 5" #1 gun mount went off, it knocked us on our butts, you could feel the heat and ears rang for a long time. In short time we went back below decks. Now, that was a 5" and you are talking about a 16" like the ones on Battle-Wagons. :eek:



Be Safe !!!
 
Yup!

n5,

"In the Army we would have had to inventory the remaining rounds"

It works that way on that gun as well. You know what round is in the drum (twenty rounds in the drum. The drum tells the computer what kind of round it is and so forth.) but the problem is our young friend did not remember for sure which it was and once it is in the bore, the computer can't tell you. We all knew what projectile it SHOULD HAVE BEEN. But he forgot and could not say for sure, so we assumed the worst.

The Gunnery Officer told the skipper that he knew which round it was because he checked the ammo inventory. To which the skipper replied, "You let your gunners play with the main battery in port and you expect me to trust your ability to keep track of your bullets!?" or words to that effect.

It would not have mattered. The Commodore would have been no less mad, had we been able to report that the round was inert.

The clearing of he round was a successful naval gunfire exercise. The projectile hit the water.
 
Not long ago I read on the net about guns going off at gun shows , thats bad , real bad with the gun grabbers reading it .
I have bought alot of black powder guns at pawn shops and found them to be still loaded .
I have 2 pistols loaded inside my gun safe by the bed . the wife knows how to use them both . So I don`t worrie about what might happen after I check out .
 
I've had my share of "no go bangs" in rifles and pistols... I usually shoot um out of rifles single shot pistols ... very easy to pull one from a revolver.
Never bought or rec'd a loaded use one though.
I like your venture of cleanin' up guns for gold or treasure... :O)
 
I found an original Remington loaded and my father in law had a CVA Hawken he hadn't used in several years when he died. It was loaded all that time and stored in a closet. First cap fired it off like it had just been loaded.
 
loaded.

Last summer a friend and long time black powder shooter passed away, and his wife gave me his 1851 navy .36.
still in holster, with a tag around the trigger guard with "Loaded. 15gr FFF, Jan. 15, 1983" written on it.

I figured since i knew him and his care for his weapons, i figured it was safe to believe the tag, and i popped them off, all 5 went bang.

I didn't say i wanted to be near the Turret firing, i would be happy being on the fantail when the front battery went off on a New Jersey class.

Just to feel the concussion from that much bang.

I tell you, standing near a M1 Abrams when it sends a HEAT round down range is an experience.

I run an ad in the local free trading paper, it brings some business. That and an ad for computer repair.

A guy gave me CVA Hunterbolt .50 cal. last saturday, for payment. it was charged, loaded but the breech plug was frozen.

Someone tried to drill it out with no success.

I disassembled it, soaked the breech in HOT HOT water, wrapped it , put it in a vise, used a long extra large screwdriver, with a square shaft, and a crescent wrench on the shaft. Hit the breech plug with canned air turned upside down to spray the cold r-134 liquid inside the flash hole.
It unscrewed very easily.

Hit the bore with some 0000 steel wool, bright & shiny now, a email to BPI (CVA) and $25 on my card, and a new breech plug and ramrod are on the way.

So i have a newfangled inline bolt action with a simmons scope to sell or trade.

Total investment?
$25 for parts, and time spent cleaning a BPS Browning 12ga.

(Getting the trigger group back in a BPS is a tricky endeavor if you don't know what you are doing.) it just won't seat the last 1/4 inch or so if you have the alignment pins flipped.

Ian
 
Ian

I left the service a bit ago but at that time (and I think it is no less true today) on most surface comabattants, the weather decks were always secured during live fire exercises almost without regard to what class of ship it was. Battleships for sure. Shame they are no longer in commission but they were tremendously expensive to operate.

I love your idea of barter for service. I am not a rifle guy but my guess is you will make a nice profit on that 50 cal. Add to that the enjoyment of fixing the weapons..how can you lose?

BTW, I second the welcome to the forum. Good to have your input.
 
Topside Experience

I know it won't happen, but you can always wish.

All of my experiences with the big bangs were PRE 9/11.

I was 45 BRAVO (the Army equivalent of a gunsmith) in the Army, so that gave me access to a vast variety of weapons.

Even as a little kid i always wanted to know how they worked, take them apart, put them back together, any weapon my dad could put in my hands.

so the army was my dream job..

I left the Army Pre 9/11 and afterward was too old to go back.

But it was fun while it lasted.

Ian
 
Hit the breech plug with canned air turned upside down to spray the cold r-134 liquid inside the flash hole.
It unscrewed very easily.
Click to expand...

I've used heat and cold in removing tight or sized threaded items, but your tip on the R134 is a great one. I have several cans of R12 around, now i can use them for something.

Welcome to the forum Ian, your expertise and experience is a great addition.
 
Fun watching the big guns?

I was with an 8" Howitzer Battalion in the mid 60s. It was fun being around and in control of them as they fired.

It's not so much fun now sitting in the dentists chair trying to save the teeth with multiple hairline fractures from the concussion and not being real sure of what he is saying because I have only 30% of my hearing left.

Maybe it wasn't all that much fun.
 
i too would think it would be awesome to call in a fire mission from a battle wagon!

or be on the vessel when the rounds go down range!

bought an old no name/GA black powder shotgun with no furniture at a flee market once. i was planning on building a stock for it.

got it home and shined a light on the bore to see a cloth looking wad about 1/4 way up the bbl. used a jag to rip it out, and 1lb of #4 shot came pouring out! jagged out the bottom patch to find a solid chunk of powder.

after soaking to remove the powder i looked at the breech area, it was so corroded from the powder i felt it was too dangerous to shoot.
 
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We used to stand on the O1 level on the FFG to watch the 76mm gun shoot, but it's not exactly a "pound you in the chest" moment when it goes off. It does shoot pretty doggone fast, though.

I was on the starboard bridge wing when we shot the first of several white birds at an Iranian ship. Neither the XO nor I knew that it was ready to go, we were both looking the other direction. Flame, heat, smoke and a hell of a lot of noise, that's all I remember. That, and the two of us fighting for space to see who was going to hit the deck first. That Iranian ship shot first and we both thought that we'd been hit. Oh, it's funny looking back now, but then...

There's also a certain amount of angst that the Gunner's Mates when through when some inattentive Petty Officer of the Watch would drop a .45 magazine over the side. And the angst would turn to white hot rage when a round would go off. It would work something like this: drop the mag, lock back the slide, verify that the chamber is clear. Hand the weapon to the oncoming watch who verifies that the weapon is clear. Insert the mag, release the slide, pull the trigger, BANG. Seriously. We had a rash of three or four discharges in a month, along with a couple of magazines over the side - you gotta put your hand under the gun when you hit the button!
 
But I always wanted to be on deck to see a 16 incher go off,
330 lbs of powder and a ton projectile. it probably don't get any better than that.

Ian
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Chances are you wouldn't have stayed on deck and you would become flat out deaf as your eardrums ceased to exist. 8" and 5" guns have the decks cleared for a reason and what the 16" would do to you wouldn't be pretty. We had a chief open a hatch just as our 8" fired and it ripped the door right out of his hand and off the hinges. He should have known better but he thought he could do a quick look see. His timing ended his career.

I watched the New Jersey fire from our ship the Canberra from 1500 meters away and that was more than close enough for me. I never want to see anything like that again.
 
Even being 1500 meters away would be good enough.

just gotta be a blast (literally!)


Hardcase, in your text you said the WHOLE PROBLEM!

"Hand the weapon to the oncoming watch who verifies that the weapon is clear. Insert the mag, release the slide, pull the trigger, BANG"

when followed in that sequence, it will happen everytime when the mag is loaded.

Ian
 
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