Load recommendations...
- Thread starter GoSlash27
- Start date
Sir William
New member
FIRST, avoid all 125 gr loads, period. BAD JU-JU. A major brand of 158 gr would be the ticket. Winchester, Remington, UMC or others. I like Winchester Supreme 180 gr 357 Magnums for carry. You might look into Mag-Safe or Glaser frangible rounds for home defense. I used to keep CCI shotshells in a M10 in my shop. It wasn't ideal but, it handled 4 legged critters well.
Sir William, why are all 125 gr loads BAD JU-JU? All I've been shooting at the range with my 3" Ruger SP-101 is 125 gr Winchester WinClean and 125 gr Remington UMC (both from Wal-Mart). I'm a revolver newbie, but I thought the 125 loads were preferred for self defense due to the reduced penetration as opposed to something heavier for hunting. I believe I read someplace something about S&W warning against loads less than 120 gr for one or some of its guns. Are the lighter loads bad for the guns?
The light bullet loads create problems for K-frame Smiths like yours because a 125 JHP (e.g.) accelerates to such a great speed by the time it hits the forcing cone it slams into it in a way that might eventually crack the flat-cut area on the bottom (look at where the 6 o'clock position of your forcing cone is thinner than the rest--an inherent soft spot in the K-frame design). Also, you get more flame cutting at the top strap just above the forcing cone with the explosive gasses such loads create.
My 66 is loaded for HD with 158 LSWCHP +p's (or rather, homebrewed equivalents thereof). For practice, I shoot standard pressure .38's in the same bullet weight (i.e., 158 gr LRN). You want to find a practice load that's at least close to the same bullet weight as your defense load, so they'll shoot to the same point of aim.
I don't like the 125's, myself. I think the primary reason for their dominance among .357 afficianados was the fact that early JHP's were relatively crude. You had to have a light bullet, so you could accelerate it over 1400 fps in a manageable load, so you could get bullet expansion. Modern JHP's--like the Gold Dot in 158 grs.--don't require this kind of velocity for good performance/expansion. In my 66, heavier bullets are more pleasant (and less flashy/bangy) to shoot, as well. If you want a .357 load (rather than my load, with which I'm very comfortable), I'd try the 158 Gold Dots or maybe Winchester's 145 gr. Silvertip--both excellent loads. For practice, find something with a similar weight in a .38, and have a blast shooting a wonderful K-frame.
My 66 is loaded for HD with 158 LSWCHP +p's (or rather, homebrewed equivalents thereof). For practice, I shoot standard pressure .38's in the same bullet weight (i.e., 158 gr LRN). You want to find a practice load that's at least close to the same bullet weight as your defense load, so they'll shoot to the same point of aim.
I don't like the 125's, myself. I think the primary reason for their dominance among .357 afficianados was the fact that early JHP's were relatively crude. You had to have a light bullet, so you could accelerate it over 1400 fps in a manageable load, so you could get bullet expansion. Modern JHP's--like the Gold Dot in 158 grs.--don't require this kind of velocity for good performance/expansion. In my 66, heavier bullets are more pleasant (and less flashy/bangy) to shoot, as well. If you want a .357 load (rather than my load, with which I'm very comfortable), I'd try the 158 Gold Dots or maybe Winchester's 145 gr. Silvertip--both excellent loads. For practice, find something with a similar weight in a .38, and have a blast shooting a wonderful K-frame.
Yeah, avoid those Federal 125 grain JHP's. Just because practically every police department in the US that had four inch 357's used them is no excuse. What the hell do the police know about shooting people anyway?! Just because that load was considered the "gold standard" for years is no excuse. Just because the .357 Sig was _invented_ to attempt to match it doesn't matter either. And don't point out that modern 9mm +P+ 124-125 grain JHP's are actually _almost_ as powerful. Who cares if the cops (and other good guys) have such good shooting results with those bullets? Just go ahead and use much heavier bullets that will increase your penetration while lowering your stopping power. We've seen it in "real world" shooting events in .357 and 9mm. I would _never_ recommend 147 grain bullets in 9mm and it would be a rare event where 158 grain bullets would be better against people than 125 grain ones. (And the heavier .357 magnum loads have heavier recoil and are quite a bit slower for shot to shot recovery. The 125's are "harsh and loud" but you can pull the gun down quicker.)
Yes, there is a durability issue with S&W K frames and max loads in .357 in lighter bullet weights. And we saw those issues raise their heads in police departments that had thousands and thousands of those rounds through their revolvers. I wouldn't recommend 3 fifty round boxes a month for years or anything like that. I probably only go through one box a year of them for my Security Six. But that's what in that gun and that's what I would go get if I had to defend myself against somebody _right now._
I agree bullet technology hasn't gotten much better in the last twenty years. But I would still rather have the original combination that served so many police departments so well. You can always get a Gold Dot in 125 grain weight!
Gregg
Yes, there is a durability issue with S&W K frames and max loads in .357 in lighter bullet weights. And we saw those issues raise their heads in police departments that had thousands and thousands of those rounds through their revolvers. I wouldn't recommend 3 fifty round boxes a month for years or anything like that. I probably only go through one box a year of them for my Security Six. But that's what in that gun and that's what I would go get if I had to defend myself against somebody _right now._
I agree bullet technology hasn't gotten much better in the last twenty years. But I would still rather have the original combination that served so many police departments so well. You can always get a Gold Dot in 125 grain weight!
Gregg
Wal Mart 100s
Just to answer your question Jefs, Wal Mart sells 100round value packs of 38 FMJs, (I haven't seen them in 357) and at a pretty darn good price, where I live. Most of the time those are what I use in my 66 for plinking/target. If you want cheaper 357s, Winchester makes 110gr. JHPs that are relativley low priced as well.
Also, for the original question, I switched from 130gr. Hydra Shok's to 145gr. Winchester Silvertips a while ago for self/home defense. Oddly enough, I could find Winchester's 50/$14.00, as opposed to Federals 20/$13.50.
Just my $.02
Just to answer your question Jefs, Wal Mart sells 100round value packs of 38 FMJs, (I haven't seen them in 357) and at a pretty darn good price, where I live. Most of the time those are what I use in my 66 for plinking/target. If you want cheaper 357s, Winchester makes 110gr. JHPs that are relativley low priced as well.
Also, for the original question, I switched from 130gr. Hydra Shok's to 145gr. Winchester Silvertips a while ago for self/home defense. Oddly enough, I could find Winchester's 50/$14.00, as opposed to Federals 20/$13.50.
Just my $.02
If it helps any, I'm only expecting her to shoot the .357/125 once every 6 months, just as a reminder that it feels different. Is that gonna raise a durability issue? I'm more interested in stopping power in that situation than anything else. Cost is not a concern.
I'd also like any suggestions on wadcutters for match shooting.
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm learning alot
-John
I'd also like any suggestions on wadcutters for match shooting.
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm learning alot
-John
"Is that gonna raise a durability issue? I'm more interested in stopping power in that situation than anything else."
The 125gr. is a good round IMHO, and unless you shoot 3 boxes a day, it shouldn't raise a durability issue.
"I'd also like any suggestions on wadcutters for match shooting."
I like S&B 38 wadcutters. They'll feel like 22lr's in your model 66.
The 125gr. is a good round IMHO, and unless you shoot 3 boxes a day, it shouldn't raise a durability issue.
"I'd also like any suggestions on wadcutters for match shooting."
I like S&B 38 wadcutters. They'll feel like 22lr's in your model 66.
Black_Snowman
New member
The flame cutting and forcing cone errosion are valid concers, but I'm more worried about adaqute penetration with the lighter bullets.
For great info on choosing a defensive load check out:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/
and
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html
For great info on choosing a defensive load check out:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/
and
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html