Load difference 1x, 2x, Virgin Brass

Stats Shooter

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Here's a question I have had for a while but not really done any scientific testing to verify.

Do Y'all adjust your loads in Virgin vs x1 fireformed brass? Or even x2 vs x3....xN fired brass?

Do y'all develop precision match loads in Virgin brass?

My method for bolt action rifles has always been that if I developed a load in unfired brass, I tweaked it a bit on firing #2. ... Depending on the case volume, it might only be 1/10 of a grain or so for .223 or maybe 3/10 in a .300 wm.

I hate to waste components just fireforming brass so I want it to be productive, and don't wanna just waste barrel life either firing cheap bullets.

But maybe someone else has a better method.
 
Your node can and usually does change if you neck size and you started testing with new or fl sized cases. I've seen case capacities go up by 5 grains of water after ff and neck sizing. Unfortunately, imo, the best bet is to ff.
I use a bit of a controversial method to ff. It saves me on rifle powder and good bullets. You'd have to pm me to get more of the specifics. Also brass with random numbers of firings without annealing can definitely throw your accuracy to the wayside.


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No really easy or 'Simple' answer to this one without more info...
Depends on auto loader or bolt rifle, speed gun or hyper accuracy rifle, ammo blaster or something that will put meat on the table or punch one ragged hole at range...

Since I don't shoot factory new brass very often, I don't test with factory new brass.
Despite the propaganda from the brass companies, it's still JUST a hunk of brass, no more, no less...
Even if you pay $5 or more each new, you SILL have to prepare it for YOUR rifle.

Other than hardening, it's STILL just a hunk of brass, and you CAN anneal it & prepare it again... and again... and again...
Ask ANY bench rifle shooter.

This is a point I got into an argument about (on line) about,
*IF* you are a 'Reloader' (not 1 time loader) the entire point is to reload, that by definition makes most of what you shoot fired more than once.

Going back in the same rifle (auto loading excluded in a lot of cases),
You only take enough out of the case to get it back into the chamber,
And there isn't ANY factory brass going to make brass that 'Specifically' fits YOUR particular chamber, you have to fire form to get that...

With auto-loaders, or with building ammo for MULTIPLE rifles,
You often have to beat the brass back very close to SAAMI specification so it chambers/functions in all firearms.
Just ONE tight chamber in the bunch, or a semi-auto that won't load a bloated case, and you are back to pretty much SAAMI to get them cycling.

For semi auto calibers, I've gone to case rolling, then annealing, then full length sizing & trimming so the brass is as close to factory/SAAMI as I can make it.
I have ZERO idea what my bulk brass customers are doing with it, so SAAMI is 'Safe' for everyone, from the guy with the ultra tight chamber in his 'Varmint' rifle to the guy with the 'China' barrel AR that would load about anything this side of a .308 case...

I learned from speed gun matches that rolling pistol & semi-auto rifle cases to SAAMI specs reduced failure to feed to about ZERO.
Speed gun matches you aren't shooting with hyper accuracy, so the case fitting the chamber to the Nth degree isn't an issue, while feeding & reliability is everything.

When I'm knocking out longer range rounds, I have specific die sets for those rifles to beat the brass back just enough to chamber correctly.
One thing I can tell you from personal experience,
That ultra tight chamber, ultra tight neck in the chamber *Sounds* real good!
Wait until you are in the middle of a match and suddenly find one of your rounds WON'T CHAMBER!!!
That super tight neck sized to the Nth degree jams up a round where you can neither get the bolt open or closed, and you WILL rethink your approach!
If you own more than one rifle in a specific caliber, sooner or later that precisely neck turned ammo WILL find its way into the 'Wrong' rifle, just a fact of life...

After years of bench rifles, and years of 'Custom' rifles, I've come back around to making the brass mostly SAAMI, and keeping the chamber close to SAAMI so anything close fits reliably.
I still cut chambers in a 3 cut process most times, but auto-loaders & bolt rifles get 'Different' chambers.
(The same way machine guns get different chamber profiles than accuracy rifles)
 
Since I anneal everything but the most common pistol brass,
I sort my bulk brass by condition/defect.

ZERO defect is #1, including brand new brass (usually left in the bag or box and dropped into the #1 bin)
Fired brass that looks & gauges out as 'New' goes directly in the #1 bucket.

Even if it gauges out to exactly SAAMI, even discoloration will wind it up in the #2 bin. I know there is nothing wrong with it, but when I'm showing off at a match I don't want discolored brass... Its just vanity.

When they get scratches or dings that *Might* effect feeding, it hits the #2 bin.
This makes good 'Range' & practice brass brass.
A gouge in the extraction rim that might keep me from ejecting goes directly to #3 bin.
Failure to feed you can shake loose is one thing, a brass jammed in the chamber is an entirely different matter!

Overly crimped necks will wind up in the #2 or #3 bucket.
You can't trim or anneal the crushed mouth out when some idiot uses a factory crimp die, has the neck crimped 1/8" or 3/16" down the neck and mashed thin...
These are rare, but sooner or later you will run into them.

#3 brass has obvious defects, shoulder dents, gouge on the rim, serious scratches from feed ramps & magazine lips,
Makes good blasting ammo for when the 'Friends' that don't practice come over and want to waste ammo, or a SHTF situation, like the big brass shortage a while back.
Mostly the 'Serviceable In A Pinch' stockpile...

This is also the brass I load when I know we aren't picking up the brass after shooting, like one range we sometimes shoot at that brass falls through a metal grate, the range keeps the brass, so I leave them crap!


#4 brass bin is the scrap brass bucket.
Oversized primer pockets, case mouth got a 'Moon' chunk taken out of it, more than about 15% mouth bend or crease from semi-auto ejection, seriously pulled extraction rim, stepped on or ran over, etc.
Some of it *Might* be 'Salvageable', but not unless I'm out of everything else and/or just not worth the time to try and rehab the case.

Easy to 'Down Grade' brass during inspection, brass never gets 'Upgraded'...
I use kitty litter or 5 gallon buckets for bulk brass, or cardboard 25 gallon barrels, so it's easy to drop a brass into them during inspection.
(I'm all about 'Easy' since I'm LAZY these days!)

No sense in making it harder than it has to be!
 
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