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LNL AP powder thru die ?
- Thread starter rebs
- Start date
Yes I use the .355 and the .40 ptx inserts for my .380 and .40 rounds. They work as advertised and free up a station as you get to combine belling and powder drop. The belling is really easy to adjust and fine-tune.
The brass will stick to the expander a little on the downstroke. You can feel it through the handle.
The brass will stick to the expander a little on the downstroke. You can feel it through the handle.
Carriertxv
New member
I'm about to use the ptx inserts for 38/357. After looking at them I'm going to try polishing them. Don't know if this will stop the cases from sticking but can't hurt to try I guess. What do you think Economist?
>Does anyone have and use the powder through belling die on their LNL AP press ?
Do I use one? NO!
Expanding is important for accuracy, and just case-mouth flaring does not produce ammunition as accurate if loading lead bullets (and probably the same for plated).
All cases should be expanded after sizing.
Do I use one? NO!
Expanding is important for accuracy, and just case-mouth flaring does not produce ammunition as accurate if loading lead bullets (and probably the same for plated).
All cases should be expanded after sizing.
Carriertxv
New member
Is that not what the ptx inserts do?
I half-heartedly tried to polish one of mine but it didn't make any difference. They do seem to be getting less stick as I use them, I have a few thousand through both of them.
As far as expanding (with a lyman M die I assume) vs flaring or belling, I am not making benchrest ammo and what I turn out is acceptably accurate. My skill level with offhand pistols is nowhere near high enough to tell the difference.
As far as expanding (with a lyman M die I assume) vs flaring or belling, I am not making benchrest ammo and what I turn out is acceptably accurate. My skill level with offhand pistols is nowhere near high enough to tell the difference.
You know, manuals used to actually discuss things like determining COL and why cases had to be expanded. Back then, no one shooting cast bullets would even think about just flaring the case mouth and not expanding the case ID.
Now, I get called names and insulted for pointing out that there is a reason why expander dies are NOT just a conical section that only flares the case mouth, but is actually designed, just like the expander button for bottleneck cases, to open up the case ID to the proper dimension for bullet seating without swaging the bullet down in diameter.
First, cases must be expanded. The case ID should be 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter. This is critical for lead bullets, almost as important for plated bullets as for lead bullets, and of some importance for jacketed.
If this isn't done, then the bullet can be swaged down, destroying accuracy, and it is a contributing factor to seating a bullet crooked, thus making ammunition that does not chamber and is inaccurate and making people use a Lee FCD to iron out the bulge from the crooked bullet.
Case mouth flaring is only done so the bullet can be seated without the case mouth contacting it and damaging it. If one wanted to, it is relatively easy to lightly chamfer the case mouth inside and out and seat a JACKETED bullet without any case mouth flare, thus eliminating the need to taper crimp.
If you take a sized case, measure the case ID (about ¼" or more down from the case mouth. Let's say it is 0.349" for a 9x19 case. Let's seat a 0.355" jacketed bullet in the case and then pull the bullet. If you measure the case ID now, it will be somewhere around 0.353-0.354".
Now, let's say you use an expander that takes the sized case from 0.349" to 0.354". Now you seat a jacketed bullet in it and pull the bullet and the case ID will be 0.354". That 0.001" is ALL you need to hold the bullet tight in the case and prevent bullet set-back.
If you do this with a 0.356" lead bullet and a 0.349" case, you will find when you pull the bullet that the bullet OD will be smaller (say 0.354") due to being swaged down and the case ID will be somewhere around 0.353".
Thus, if the OP was asking about the PTEs, PTXs, or Powder Funnels that ONLY flare the case mouth, I answered NO, I don't use them. That was the way I read the question.
I have even written to Lee about their universal neck expanding die, pointing out that the die is NOT an expander die at all and all they have to do is read Richard Lee's #2 manual to find out that a case mouth flaring only die is not an expander die--i.e., ask their BOSS about what an expander die really is.
In fact, I have had to have custom expanders made (Lyman M-die expander inserts can, or could be, ordered in what ever sized you needed) where I couldn't use a standard expander with the lead bullets I was using. For 9x19, I like 0.357-0.358" lead bullets and need to at least use a .38 expander.
Of course, this may not be too critical if accuracy is not your goal and your targets are all about 10 yards away or closer. If you don't use an expander and your ammunition is sufficient for your usage, that is all the matters.
Now, I get called names and insulted for pointing out that there is a reason why expander dies are NOT just a conical section that only flares the case mouth, but is actually designed, just like the expander button for bottleneck cases, to open up the case ID to the proper dimension for bullet seating without swaging the bullet down in diameter.
First, cases must be expanded. The case ID should be 0.001-0.002" smaller than bullet diameter. This is critical for lead bullets, almost as important for plated bullets as for lead bullets, and of some importance for jacketed.
If this isn't done, then the bullet can be swaged down, destroying accuracy, and it is a contributing factor to seating a bullet crooked, thus making ammunition that does not chamber and is inaccurate and making people use a Lee FCD to iron out the bulge from the crooked bullet.
Case mouth flaring is only done so the bullet can be seated without the case mouth contacting it and damaging it. If one wanted to, it is relatively easy to lightly chamfer the case mouth inside and out and seat a JACKETED bullet without any case mouth flare, thus eliminating the need to taper crimp.
If you take a sized case, measure the case ID (about ¼" or more down from the case mouth. Let's say it is 0.349" for a 9x19 case. Let's seat a 0.355" jacketed bullet in the case and then pull the bullet. If you measure the case ID now, it will be somewhere around 0.353-0.354".
Now, let's say you use an expander that takes the sized case from 0.349" to 0.354". Now you seat a jacketed bullet in it and pull the bullet and the case ID will be 0.354". That 0.001" is ALL you need to hold the bullet tight in the case and prevent bullet set-back.
If you do this with a 0.356" lead bullet and a 0.349" case, you will find when you pull the bullet that the bullet OD will be smaller (say 0.354") due to being swaged down and the case ID will be somewhere around 0.353".
Thus, if the OP was asking about the PTEs, PTXs, or Powder Funnels that ONLY flare the case mouth, I answered NO, I don't use them. That was the way I read the question.
I have even written to Lee about their universal neck expanding die, pointing out that the die is NOT an expander die at all and all they have to do is read Richard Lee's #2 manual to find out that a case mouth flaring only die is not an expander die--i.e., ask their BOSS about what an expander die really is.
In fact, I have had to have custom expanders made (Lyman M-die expander inserts can, or could be, ordered in what ever sized you needed) where I couldn't use a standard expander with the lead bullets I was using. For 9x19, I like 0.357-0.358" lead bullets and need to at least use a .38 expander.
Of course, this may not be too critical if accuracy is not your goal and your targets are all about 10 yards away or closer. If you don't use an expander and your ammunition is sufficient for your usage, that is all the matters.