Little gun, big bullet, large recoil questions

L

Lictalon

New member
My wife just picked up a Kimber Ultra Carry in Stainless...Great gun and worked great on the initial range session. This is her carry gun, and she wants, quite obviously, to be good with it--and as she drilled the bullseye with her first shot, I'm more than certain that she can be.

The problem is that she is quite clearly recoil shy. It's hard to know to what extent it's the fear of a new gun (her old pistol was a Browning BDA in .380) and to what extent it's just bad pistol shooting...We're both aware that this will be a "carry much shoot little" pistol, but her flinching is bad enough that we need to work on it.

So the questions are...

1. What techniques, tricks, and whatnot can be done to overcome the flinching from recoil? Her stance is good--a modified weaver--and it's not so much a controllability question, but just how to overcome the flinch.

2. The web of her shooting hand is sore and bruised from about 65 rounds...is this normal for a small gun? Is there some way to overcome this?

Thanks!
 
First off,what loads are you shooting? If your shooting straight self defense stuff,back off to a target type load,and just shot more often.If its the recoil ,and flinching is because of her fear of the bigger caliber,here again a lite load will help,you could also try loading the mags for her and use a ball and dummy load,so as not to know where the dummy load is don't let her help.we use the same thing with rookies,when training with our 229's in 40
 
Hmm...excellent questions.

Winchester "White Box" 230 grain bullets. If someone suggests a lighter, fairly inexpensive load, I'd be more than happy to try that.

Thanks!
 
The "ball & dummy" drill. Definitely try this.

It works easiest with a revolver, but does fine with an auto if someone besides the shooter loads the clips.

Load up a few dummy rounds in random order, possibly even next to each other. For some autos, this might require a custom dummy round, sans powder and primer.

The shooter will shoot slow, aimed shots, and flinching will be super obvious on a dummy, even to the shooter.

It works great! Try it!
 
How about trying some Federal "Personal Defense (PD) Hydra-Shoks"?

They're supposed to have less recoil. When I got my Glock 27, I tried some in .40 caliber and recoil was not an issue. I had a Jefferson County LEO tell me that he can "hit" much better with PD H-S, so I've used them a lot. MarkCO, over on Glock Talk did some testing with PD's and they came out pretty good. For me, thet're just the ticket when the arthritis is acting up.

KR
 
try Winchester USA's or WinCleans in 185grain. Decent performing rounds from a target session perspective. I would not recommend (IMHO) going to a lighter .45 round. Keep the 230gr in Hydra Shok for defense/carry rounds. Run a few mags through at the beginning of each range session then switch to the lighter stuff for extended (time and round count wise) range work.
 
I shoot 185gr Rem. Golden Sabers on my Officer's size pistol.

If you don't reload, might I suggest ordering these loaded by Collins Cartridge Co, in TX? www.cccammo.com. I buy them in 500rd cases for $130.
 
Thanks for all the help folks.

She spent all day dry diring...about eight hours of work. When we went to the range, the first magazine was all in the 9-10 ring...it went downhill from there, but we think we're on the right track. Thanks for all the advice!
 
silvertips

provide, IMO, a good balance between type, recoil, etc...and they are inexpensive enough to be used for practice.

they are night and day different in recoil on my 3" self-defender (a para 6.45) from, say, 230 grain hardball.
 
ps

when new, IMO, people have a tendency to spend too much time shooting.

after 65 rounds, especially in a woman sized hand, anyone will feel it with a 45. and getting tired, with 1911s means failures to feed, eject, etc..that can come from limp wristing, etc.

the technique, IMO, should be to fire 30 or 40 rounds, no more..and then go every few days or so and fire a couple of mags...no more.

shoot double taps, etc., to try to simpulate what might happen.

the bottom line in a carry gun is to be comfortable with it for *carry* usage......which means a strong liklihood that if one ever has to use it, there will be no more than a few shots fired.

after some initial break in, i carry the weapon dirty and in exactly the configuration i will always carry in, and continue the same process...no more than a few mags at a time....

once you have shot, say, 150 rounds or so this way, then the gun/ammo combo is proabably reliable.

nothing is ever perfect, of course, and these are just machines...but that is how i see it.

at that point, there is certainly nothing wrong with experimenting with different ammo, etc...but at least doing so when the basic 'configuration" is set.

your milage may vary.
 
My wife shoots a USP45C. She had some problems early on that I thought were due to recoil, but it turns out the flinch was a result of the muzzle blast. Ear plugs worn with muffs have taken care of that and she's now a better shot than I. Could the difference in report between her .380 Browning and the Kimber be part of the problem?

For the chewed up web of her hand, try a ruber covered grip safety from Pachmayr, I sure like the one I installed on my TRP.

I don't know if Wilson makes a Shok-Buf kit for your wife's Kimber, that may also be an option to consider. However, this may be a range-only solution as I've read differing opinions on the wisdom of using this product in a carry/defensive gun due to some failures.

Good luck sorting this out!
 
If you reload, or know somebody who does, you can work up some really soft shooting practice loads. I use 4.4 grains of bullseye on a 200 gr. semi wadcutter. very nice. :)

I wouldn't use a Shok Buff in a carry gun, I saw one come apart and jam up a gun a couple of weeks ago.

One thing you might want to try is seeking out some good quality local instruction. A good teacher could watch your wife and probably give you some very good tips.

I don't know if she is doing this, but don't try to fight recoil. You can't do it. Let the gun recoil on its own. The front sight will rise, and come back down, down try to fight that, it will just wear you out. Let the gun do its thing. Have a firm grip, but not a death grip.

Also if it turns out blast is the problem instead of the actual muzzle rise, (plugs & muffs was a great suggestion) perhaps she should try shooting Issocoles instead of Weaver. That puts the gun a bit further away from the shooters face.
 
Dry firing, shooting lots of .22 in handguns, and limit # of .45 rounds in one session.

Best thing you can do is stopp shooting once you notice a flinch. If you continue to shoot while flinching, you reinforce the flinch for next time.
 
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