Lithgow markings

E

endersgun

Inactive
I put a rifle on layaway the other day and I'm pretty excited about it. But now I have a few concerns. First,it has jjco nyny as the importer, I understand those can have problems, or at least buyer beware. Second is the * on the top of the barrel meaning the barrel is bad? I took a look down the barrel and it looks OK, but that was by no means a thourogh inspection. Thoughts welcome.

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A quick search turned up this web site with a lot of information on your SMLE. http://www.allaboutenfields.co.nz/history/markings/

It seems that the mark you are concerned about indicates that the gun in question was "Sold out of service", meaning it was sold to the commercial market at the end of it's service life.

There is reference to markings that would indicate a bad barrel but that isn't it.

The web site looks interesting, enjoy.
 
I went there previously but wasn't sure if it was the same since it didn't have the two S's on it. It is the closest thing though so maybe that's it.
 
"JJCO" is John Jovino Co., of New York. I believe he was the importer/distributor of these. He also sold "unfired" Lithgows a few years back, but those were guns that were made up from leftover parts.

As a previous poster said, the * marking is a sale mark, indicating that the rifle is no longer "Crown Property." It's actually two "broad arrow (crow's foot)" markings placed point to point.
 
The British state ownership mark was the broad arrow, consisting of three equal slashes with 60 degree spacing. If a gun was sold by the government it was marked with an opposing broad arrow; those two together give the star-like mark on the gun.
 
Is it 2 "crows foot" ownership marks facing each other, or is it a star, indicating rust in the bore? I honestly can't tell.
 
Check the bore, check the bolt, look at the serial numbers. Work the action for 'smoothity', and inspect the sights for bending, dents, dings, and look over the stock for cracks and big gouges.

Check the chamber, and the bore, with a borelight. Your dealer should have one at the counter.

From the pictures, looks alright to me.

The Lithgow SMLEs were well-made, even in late war. With the sudden collapse of the Japanese in 1945, it's possible a 1944 rifle was either not issued or just made it to the occupation forces before being put away. That's unlikely, but check the rifle out carefully.

Doesn't look like buyer's remorse should be an issue, to me, from the pictures, but there's more to look at.
 
Two other things to consider are headspace and bore diameter. If the shop's got a gunsmith who can check these both out for you and adjust headspace if necessary, go for it. If you're the sort who casts their own bullets, knowing what to size to is vital.

I haven't met an SMLE that I didn't like.
 
Another interesting thing...there are no numbers whatsoever on the bolt. Anyone seen that before? I'm still getting it no matter what, I don't see them very often around here at a decent price.
 
The serial number is stamped on the rear side of the bolt stem. Sometimes this area has the number ground off before refinishing, and you can tell because it looks like it has been ground off. More than likely, though, your gun probably has a new, un-numbered replacement bolt. There have been a lot of them on the surplus market lately.

On a truly matching Lithgow, there is also another number stamped on the underside of the bolt stem that is an assembly number which is different than the serial number, and should match a like number on the receiver of the gun. Again, this is a different number than the serial number.
 
Can you post a picture of the rear face of the bolt lever?
A common thing to do with mis-matched bolts was to grind away the original serial number from the rear face of the handle. It hides the fact that things like *gulp, this always starts a fight* (sorry:p) Headspace & locking lug engagement many be *ahem* "less than optimal".

If the rear face has sharp, not rounded edges & the face itself is "polished" not "rough cast" then this may have been done to your bolt to hide the fact it was not matched to the receiver.

This is what it should look like, notice in particular the "crossed flags" stamp highlighted that's a proof mark & MUST be there so if it's missing then the bolt has probably been scrubbed of numbers.
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Wogpotter, his rifle is a Lithgow, which means it is a No. 1 Mk III*.

The No. 1 bolt stems tend to have more rounded contours, and the crossed pennants on Lithgows (at least on my examples) are placed further outward toward the grasping ball.

Of course, without a picture of the backside of the stem, we can't be sure.

In the last 15 years or so, much unissued British surplus has come into the U.S., including new, unnumbered bolts for both No. 1 rifles and No. 4s such as yours, so it is possible he has a new, surplus replacement. But, as I just said, we can't be sure without a pic.

Sadly, there is no quick way to adjust headspace on a No. 1, except by measuring the bolt heads.

The cocking piece is definitely from Oz.
 
I'm aware that my pic is of a No4, I was just trying to show what the rear of the bolts handle would look like if not ground.
 
I committed the ultimate sacrilege for Enfield collectors, but I'm a shooter, not a collector.:eek:
It came like this:
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& I turned it into this:
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Strapping on flame-retardant suit as I type.:D
 
IMO you took a gun that wasnt being used and put it into service. Not like this was a rare rifle. Also the 303 makes a great caliber for deer, my dad shot his first deer with one in 1960. I think that rifle cost him $18 and I am still shooting it today.
 
That's the way I looked at it as well.
Purist collectors will be along shortly with the bucket, rail, tar & feathers though, I hear the pitter-patter of tiny footsteps.:)
 
I'd love to shoot a real No4 Mk1 T. Had a chance to own one still in the crate a few years ago. Just didn't have the $3K to pay for it. :(
 
I had one back when they were reasonably inexpensive.
I liked the rifle, but hated the Mk32 telescope.

This ersatz sniper actually shoots better than the (T) ever did so I'm happy as a clam.
 
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