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Linotype Lead Pipe, now what
- Thread starter steve4102
- Start date
Two 10 MM 1911, both slug at .400.
No gas checks, Lee 175 TC, Lee 175gr TC Tumble lube, Lee 175gr TC converted to HP.
Bullets cast and drop drop at about .403 - straight WW alloy , I push them through the Lee sizing die to a very consistent .401. I have tested these bullet without sizing them, they functioned and fired fine, accuracy was a little less than sized version.
No gas checks, Lee 175 TC, Lee 175gr TC Tumble lube, Lee 175gr TC converted to HP.
Bullets cast and drop drop at about .403 - straight WW alloy , I push them through the Lee sizing die to a very consistent .401. I have tested these bullet without sizing them, they functioned and fired fine, accuracy was a little less than sized version.
I think you may need some Arsenic (wheel weights, chilled shot),in the alloy to get them to harden by water dropping....I have a bunch of soft lead water pipe, I also have a 30 lb box of Linotype. I want to mix the two ... I will be water dropping them...
To start with I would blend up small batches to find where you need to be. This said I usually do this in 5# increments and it seems to work out pretty well.
Another thing you might do is download one of the following calculator, it helps get things pretty close to whee you want them. The initial post has one but there is a link to another I think. I use the one put up by Bompo but it is the older one before the last couple of updates. It works out pretty well for me.
Lead-alloy-calculators
Another program I use with this is called Convert. Its good to pull up the smaller amounts of tin due to the calculator using pounds as a reference. To me figuring decimal percentages of a pound in my head just don't cut it. With Convert, you simply set the input to pounds and the output to ounces and start throwing in numbers. Its nice to be able to throw in say .076 and find out exactly how many ounces that is. Since most recommend not exceeding the percent of antimony with tin I usually shoot for something close to or equal to what I am using. Also since most of the more common metals used are listed along with they close approximate of components, it is really helpful.
Just doing a quick look, I might start out with the following amounts and see where that got me,
Pb - 4#
Lino - 1#
95-5 solder - .08# or 1.28 oz
This should give you something in the neighborhood of a 2.28 / 2.44 / 95.3 (Sb/Sn/Pb) and run around a 11.5 hardness.
I wouldn't sweat the water dropping until after you shot some that fit. I'm using some alloy in my .357 that is only a 9.5bhn and running it up to around 1150fps with no issues.
Another thing you might do is download one of the following calculator, it helps get things pretty close to whee you want them. The initial post has one but there is a link to another I think. I use the one put up by Bompo but it is the older one before the last couple of updates. It works out pretty well for me.
Lead-alloy-calculators
Another program I use with this is called Convert. Its good to pull up the smaller amounts of tin due to the calculator using pounds as a reference. To me figuring decimal percentages of a pound in my head just don't cut it. With Convert, you simply set the input to pounds and the output to ounces and start throwing in numbers. Its nice to be able to throw in say .076 and find out exactly how many ounces that is. Since most recommend not exceeding the percent of antimony with tin I usually shoot for something close to or equal to what I am using. Also since most of the more common metals used are listed along with they close approximate of components, it is really helpful.
Just doing a quick look, I might start out with the following amounts and see where that got me,
Pb - 4#
Lino - 1#
95-5 solder - .08# or 1.28 oz
This should give you something in the neighborhood of a 2.28 / 2.44 / 95.3 (Sb/Sn/Pb) and run around a 11.5 hardness.
I wouldn't sweat the water dropping until after you shot some that fit. I'm using some alloy in my .357 that is only a 9.5bhn and running it up to around 1150fps with no issues.
Edward429451
Moderator
Lead water pipes are pure lead. I smelt them up into ingots pure and then when ready to make boolits, I melt down 20# worth in my electric bottom pour pot and add a small palm of chilled shot and about 18" of solder and they run great like that, without leading or GC's.
It's hard to describe a small palm full, I don't mean a full palm at all. Actually less than it may sound like. A cupped palm with about a 50 cent piece size pile that's about 1/2" deep. I've been casting so long I just eyeball it and they're fine.
Of course, I provide for proper fit to bore also. (.001-.002 over nominal). I only cast for handguns generally and drive them up to 1400 fps or so in my big bore magnums.
These slugs turn out about 18-20 BHN, and if you water drop them they harden to about 26-28 bhn and will soften back down to about 22-24 bhn in about 6 months if stored where they seem to stabilize.
It's hard to describe a small palm full, I don't mean a full palm at all. Actually less than it may sound like. A cupped palm with about a 50 cent piece size pile that's about 1/2" deep. I've been casting so long I just eyeball it and they're fine.
Of course, I provide for proper fit to bore also. (.001-.002 over nominal). I only cast for handguns generally and drive them up to 1400 fps or so in my big bore magnums.
These slugs turn out about 18-20 BHN, and if you water drop them they harden to about 26-28 bhn and will soften back down to about 22-24 bhn in about 6 months if stored where they seem to stabilize.
Edward, using your numbers on the lead alloy calculator gets me an answer of the following; Tin .14%, antimony .05%, arsenic .01%, lead 99.5% for a brinnel of 8.7.
Using 18 " of 1/8 wire lead free solder,(95% tin, 5% antimony), gets me 82 grains. The pile of shot in my palm,(#4 chilled), produces 3 ounces. I used those numbers to input to the calculator.
I'm not saying you're wrong, or what you're doing is wrong, as long as it works for you. The boolit fitting the bore and the use of a good lube is what's working. If, indeed, you're getting a brinnel of 18 to 20, there's some hardening agent in that lead pipe. The joints are usually 50-50 solder, that could raise the tin content, but not enough to account for the ten count of brinnel increase.
As for the OP, here's what the calculator said to mix for an approximate alloy brinnel number. 10 pounds of each will yield 2% tin, 6% antimony, lead 92%, for a brinnel of 14.7 .
12# of lead and 8# lino, gets you tin 1.6%, antimony 4.8%, lead 93.6% for a brinnel of 13.5. Both should work for good fill-out and a tough boolit that wouldn't shatter or be brittle. I'd go with the 10-10 alloy myself if that's what I had to work with.
The 12 lead to 8 lino would work also, but is a bit light on tin. If you could find a source for tin, sweeten it with .5% to make for better fill-out.
As always, boolit fit is king, the queen is a good lube. I use that boolit in my 40 S&W, with the STOCK Glock barrel , my M-22. I run it a lot harder 17-3 lino to pure lead. Has to be harder to eliminate leading in the stock-glock.
Using 18 " of 1/8 wire lead free solder,(95% tin, 5% antimony), gets me 82 grains. The pile of shot in my palm,(#4 chilled), produces 3 ounces. I used those numbers to input to the calculator.
I'm not saying you're wrong, or what you're doing is wrong, as long as it works for you. The boolit fitting the bore and the use of a good lube is what's working. If, indeed, you're getting a brinnel of 18 to 20, there's some hardening agent in that lead pipe. The joints are usually 50-50 solder, that could raise the tin content, but not enough to account for the ten count of brinnel increase.
As for the OP, here's what the calculator said to mix for an approximate alloy brinnel number. 10 pounds of each will yield 2% tin, 6% antimony, lead 92%, for a brinnel of 14.7 .
12# of lead and 8# lino, gets you tin 1.6%, antimony 4.8%, lead 93.6% for a brinnel of 13.5. Both should work for good fill-out and a tough boolit that wouldn't shatter or be brittle. I'd go with the 10-10 alloy myself if that's what I had to work with.
The 12 lead to 8 lino would work also, but is a bit light on tin. If you could find a source for tin, sweeten it with .5% to make for better fill-out.
As always, boolit fit is king, the queen is a good lube. I use that boolit in my 40 S&W, with the STOCK Glock barrel , my M-22. I run it a lot harder 17-3 lino to pure lead. Has to be harder to eliminate leading in the stock-glock.
Edward429451
Moderator
I do melt those lead joints too. Plus about 1400 is the max I drive them too, most are slower.