LIL'Gun in 357 mag

Lil'Gun is my go to for 22Hornet because I get high Vel. with low pressure. The same goes with the 357 Mag. I would try it if I wasn't concerned on running out for my Hornet. I like Low pressure with High Vel.
 
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In 2001 got half a dozen police surplus 1950s and 60s vintage Colt Police Positive 38 special revolvers for $80 each.
I reamed one out to 357 mag and started working up from the 18 gr LIL'GUN 158 gr Hodgdon published max load for 357 mag.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
With reloading tricks, I got 26 gr to fit.
Each step between 18 gr and 26 gr was louder and kicked harder.
I thought I was getting somewhere.
I cut and inch of the butt of the frame and put small grips. The recoil was really hard.
Then I shot over a chronograph.
1175 fps for the max published
1155 fps for 5.5 gr extra
I realized that the extra power was going in to the extra fire ball.
I wrote Hodgdon and said that I have been using 158 gr XTP and 158 gr LSWC with LIL'GUN and they both worked. Why did they not have cast loads with LIL'GUN 158gr 357 mag?
They said they tried it and it was melting the rear of the bullet.
 
Clark said:
They said they tried it and it was melting the rear of the bullet.
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I haven't seen it, but there are stories of excessive flame cutting and forcing cone erosion when using Lil Gun because it burns hotter than usual.
 
i use it occasionally when it's velocities are good with a particular weight bullet. i know it i best suited for heavier bullets, i believe due to case capacity. it does tits in supersonic 300blk, so i usually hold on to it for those purposes, it usually just isnt econimical in 357 because so mny powders can do the same thing with less powder. but if thats what you have and need to use it, its a good hard-hitting powder for 150's and up
 
I normally use Alliant 2400 but I'm about out. I sold my 22 Hornet last year and have a pound and a half of LIL'Gun left form reloading that. I think I'll try it in my Ruger GP100. I also have a Coonan. Will the lower pressure level make it not cycle?
 
ruger357w said:
does any use hodgdon lil'gun in the 357 magnum? how well does it perform? I will be using a hornady 158gr. HP-XTP.
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I use this exact combination. We were hitting water jugs at 100 yards yesterday with that combination. I don't have a chrono so I don't know the speeds but they definitely go bang.
 
Look at the Hodgdon website data....and compare LilGun to some of the other common powders...like Universal, TiteGroup, etc.....and you'll see the velocities using Lil Gun are pretty high ...

I would not recommend using it for .357 Mag....
 
At this point, I only use LIL'GUN if I have to.
H110 smells better. [Grammatically incorrect, but that is how I speak].

Trying to get the most of of a 25-20 Win model 92 with horrible erosion around the firing pin hole, I went to CCI450, the thickest cup primer I could find. I milled out a clamp and put a handguns scope on the barrel. I went to Sierra 75 gr Sierra hollow point .257 bullets #1600 for the shortest good bullet I could stabilize with an antique slow twist barrel, I did 1.9" OAL that had to be loaded single shot.

And the ultimate sacrifice for performance, 12 grains of stinky LIL'GUN powder.

Quickload says 2252 fps 28,065 psi, the chono was more like 2325 fps.

I got my groups. The primers looked like blowing bubbles with bubble gum.

What is in the hopper next to me right now? Sweet smelling H110 going into 32-20 hot loads. The roll crimp is like an extra grain for pressure.
 
Bob Baker of Freedom Arms experimented with Lil Gun in a Model 83 chambered in 357 magnum. He found that Lil Gun burned much hotter than H-110, and the gun rapidly became too hot to handle. The high temperature appeared to have caused the metal of the barrel to begin flowing, resulting in significant damage to the barrel.

Based on those observations, I quit using Lil Gun...
 
I bought 1 LB of LIL Gun but I have yet to use it. The idea of melting the barrel kind of freaks me out now! I had never heard of that before this post.
 
I've used Lil Gun with the 158gr XTP. Found a good, accurate load. It does burn hotter than other powders but H110/296 and AA#9 heat up your gun pretty quickly too. You do need to let the gun cool down between strings but a couple cylinders full in a row isn't going to melt your barrel. Any of the spherical magnum powders can cause barrel damage and forcing cone erosion. Just keep an eye on how hot your gun is getting and take a break when it is too hot to handle. You'll need to take a break sooner with Lil Gun but you need to be careful with any full power loads.
 
Speaking from first hand experience I ruined a barrel on my .460. Mag with Lil'Gun. It's not rumors at all. Thankfully S&W replaced it for free. After that I switched back to H110 and no more issues.
 
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Lil Gun and forcing cone erosion

Hi, new poster here. I was glad to come across this relatively fresh thread on this subject. I've just purchased a box of 50 Underwood 180 grain hard cast 357 mag ammo. In trying to learn everything I can about it, I ran across this:

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/357-magnum-factorycommercial-load-pulldown/30/

And this spreadsheet from the same forum:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dHRYQjg2VzRjWEpUVlhXbjN0ZVMybFE#gid=7

It appears that both Buffalo Bore and Underwood are using Lil Gun in some of their 357 magnum loads, including the one I bought. The picture of the powder certainly looks a lot more like Lil Gun than Power Pro, and the performance is right in line with what would be expected from that amount of powder.

So... I'm wondering whether anyone has experienced the extreme heating problem and resulting accelerated wear on the gun with these two commercial loads. I don't want to damage my revolvers (GP100, Blackhawk, S&W 686-5) I expect to shoot no more than a cylinder of these at a time - more likely just a couple. This is ammo for walking in the woods, not the range. Should I be concerned?
 
So... I'm wondering whether anyone has experienced the extreme heating problem and resulting accelerated wear on the gun with these two commercial loads.
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I quit using Lil' Gun in my revolvers after Bob Baker from Freedom Arms posted warnings about excessive premature forcing cone and barrel erosion they experienced when testing Lil' gun in their firearms. While I do not experience any excessive erosion with Lil' Gun, I only shot a small amount of it. The one thing I did notice and it helped convince me to go back to other powders, was the high amount of heat produced by shooting Lil' Gun and how hot it made my firearms, all of them, even the handgun caliber carbines with dramatically less rounds than any other powder. Since the performance and velocities I got from Lil' Gun in my revolvers was no better than H110/W296, it wasn't a hard choice to make. I see no reason to take any risk with my firearms, no matter how small that risk is, if there are no clear advantages and there are other options just as viable.
 
a__l__a__n
..357 magnum ..
I expect to shoot no more than a cylinder of these at a time - more likely just a couple. This is ammo for walking in the woods, not the range. Should I be concerned?
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When I was 6 years old my father was explaining to me why a howitzer shoots 20 miles with the same velocity a 30-06 shoots 3 miles, "The wind resistance area goes up as the square, but the bullet mass volume goes up as the cube."

So the little 357 mouse gun is at less risk of getting metal surface temperature too hot, compared to the 460 elephant gun.
 
So the little 357 mouse gun is at less risk of getting metal surface temperature too hot, compared to the 460 elephant gun.
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I can verify this from actual experience with Lil Gun. I've loaded it in 45 Colt and 357 Magnum. The 45 Colt loads heat up my Blackhawk very quickly, a couple cylinders full and it's too hot to handle and needs to be rested until it's cooled off. In 357 Lil Gun doesn't heat up my Blackhawk or GP100 nearly as fast. Lil Gun in 357 does heat up guns faster than 296/H110 but not as quickly as it does in the big bores. I'm sure that in 454 Casull Lil Gun will heat up a gun faster than it will in 45 Colt. No wonder Bob Baker wrecked his gun with the stuff, although there had to be some recklessness on his part to keep shooting a gun that hot.

This phenomenon isn't limited to just Lil Gun either. 296, AA#9 and 4227 all heat up my 45 Colts faster than my 357s. It makes sense, you are burning more powder over a greater surface area.

I still have maybe a half pound of Lil Gun left and when it's gone I don't plan on getting more, I have three pounds of 296/H110 waiting in the wings. I will use up the Lil Gun in 357 cases, not 45 Colt. The loads I've worked up in 357 with Lil Gun are very accurate though.

I wouldn't worry too much about using Buffalo Bore or Underwood ammo loaded with Lil Gun. Just keep an eye out for overheating and let your guns cool off when they get too warm. Two or three cylinders at a time won't damage your gun.
 
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