Lightweight Models
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
The heating of the barreel in a string of shots can cause the groups to open up. The first two or even three will be close together, and then it all goes to heck.
For a hunting rifle, this makes no difference. You're only gonna worry about the first one or two shots, anyway, and almost any of the "buggy whips" will do just fine, there.
I got one of the Rem Titanium 700s in 7mm08. With a Weaver V3 on it, I can hold a three-shot group of just inside one inch at 100 yards. Haven't bothered with more shots per group...
FWIW, Art
For a hunting rifle, this makes no difference. You're only gonna worry about the first one or two shots, anyway, and almost any of the "buggy whips" will do just fine, there.
I got one of the Rem Titanium 700s in 7mm08. With a Weaver V3 on it, I can hold a three-shot group of just inside one inch at 100 yards. Haven't bothered with more shots per group...
FWIW, Art
Art's braggin'.
And I'm
<--- this color with envy!
I have a friend who used to carry a Ruger super-lightweight, that couldn't group worth a durn, 'til he hit on an idea: make a group of cold-barrel shots. Shoot, get a drink of water or shoot something else for 20 minutes. Shoot again, let cool. Continue. The resulting group is made up of cold-barrel shots. His little Ruger would keep it in an inch, done that way.
Every hunting shot is (or should be) a cold-barrel shot. If things have heated up to where your barrel's warm, you can pretty well bet that sub M.O.A. accuracy wouldn't help, anyway.
One of the main thing that weight does (other than wear a man plumb out) is to provide the inertia to keep those sights on-target through the shot. Doesn't mean heavier rifles are inherently more accurate; it simply means that it's easier to wring that accuracy out of them, once you're at the shot. But if I have to carry my 12-lb Sendero (gussied up and dressed out, that's about what it comes to) up and down mountain passes and the like, I'll probably never get to take that shot, because I never got there; I was tuckered out miles ago.
--L.P.
And I'm
<--- this color with envy!I have a friend who used to carry a Ruger super-lightweight, that couldn't group worth a durn, 'til he hit on an idea: make a group of cold-barrel shots. Shoot, get a drink of water or shoot something else for 20 minutes. Shoot again, let cool. Continue. The resulting group is made up of cold-barrel shots. His little Ruger would keep it in an inch, done that way.
Every hunting shot is (or should be) a cold-barrel shot. If things have heated up to where your barrel's warm, you can pretty well bet that sub M.O.A. accuracy wouldn't help, anyway.
One of the main thing that weight does (other than wear a man plumb out) is to provide the inertia to keep those sights on-target through the shot. Doesn't mean heavier rifles are inherently more accurate; it simply means that it's easier to wring that accuracy out of them, once you're at the shot. But if I have to carry my 12-lb Sendero (gussied up and dressed out, that's about what it comes to) up and down mountain passes and the like, I'll probably never get to take that shot, because I never got there; I was tuckered out miles ago.
--L.P.
We've got a couple of the Rem M7s - .308 & 7-08 - both w/18.5" barrels.
I load a couple different bullets for each. Me shooting the .308 & I do well to keep at an inch at 100 - plenty good for what I use it for. The Wife's 7-08, with her shooting it, will do 4-5 sjots into 3/4" - I think it's the shooter one this one.
The barrels do heat up pretty quick, but as mentioned, doesn't matter as field application.
One thing that kinda bugs me is the loss of velocity. I was raised with longer barrels & kinda expect "normalcy." But this for practical purposes, has no bearing while hunting other than a bit of a loss of maximum point blank range - again, not that big of a deal.
After a few hours of the elk woods, the difference between a 7 & 9 lb rifle seems like quite a bit.
I load a couple different bullets for each. Me shooting the .308 & I do well to keep at an inch at 100 - plenty good for what I use it for. The Wife's 7-08, with her shooting it, will do 4-5 sjots into 3/4" - I think it's the shooter one this one.
The barrels do heat up pretty quick, but as mentioned, doesn't matter as field application.
One thing that kinda bugs me is the loss of velocity. I was raised with longer barrels & kinda expect "normalcy." But this for practical purposes, has no bearing while hunting other than a bit of a loss of maximum point blank range - again, not that big of a deal.
After a few hours of the elk woods, the difference between a 7 & 9 lb rifle seems like quite a bit.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
One of the reasons I went with "Lil Ti" is the 22" barrel.
My 26" '06 weighs 9-3/4 pounds; Lil Ti is 6-1/4. ("Fully dressed") That '0t can sure take the fun out of a dozen-mile day, if Ol Bucky is too well hidden!
Sometimes on an ultralight, the old shim-trick on the forearm will help keep groups smaller.
Art
My 26" '06 weighs 9-3/4 pounds; Lil Ti is 6-1/4. ("Fully dressed") That '0t can sure take the fun out of a dozen-mile day, if Ol Bucky is too well hidden!
Sometimes on an ultralight, the old shim-trick on the forearm will help keep groups smaller.
Art
Brian Williams
New member
I have a Win mod 70 classic compact and a Rem Mod 7 youth both in 7mm-08. They both will shoot five shot groups inside 1 inch when shooting all five in less then 2 min. I shot 20 rounds inside of 10 minutes and kept all inside 2 inches with the Win. The recoil is not bad in either. the win has a 20 in barrel and the rem a 20 inch barrel with iron sights. they both weighin under 6 1/2 pounds.
The rem is for sale
Mod 7 youth model plain wood stock iron sights leupold 2 piece mounts and leupold rings.... $380 to your ffl we split shipping 21 rounds through the barrel, last group inside 3/4 @ 100 yds.
My son bought his own gun, its cool to start him early at 12
The rem is for sale
Mod 7 youth model plain wood stock iron sights leupold 2 piece mounts and leupold rings.... $380 to your ffl we split shipping 21 rounds through the barrel, last group inside 3/4 @ 100 yds.
My son bought his own gun, its cool to start him early at 12
dgf,
Recoil's a bit higher than in a full-weight rifle - physics & no free lunch.
Really depends on your nephew's size & sensitivity to recoil. The Wife's 5' even & 100 lbs - no problem with the 7-08 & we really should have picked up another .308 for her - a bit better selection for bullets in the heavier weights.
If you reload, options for down-loading a bit are in the sky's the limit area - or maybe use a bit lighter bullet.
With the 18.5" bbl, I went with Barnes XBT for the alleged added penetration. With 165s @2400fps, they've shot right through three elk so far - one end-to-end. Other than the mentioned MPBR being a bit closer in, I'm not at any disadvantage in the least by not having the higher velocities.
Get that boy a M7. If for elk-sized critters, I'd go for the .308 & if for deer, the 7-08 or .243
BTW, we're getting right at 2600fps with 120s & ~2500fps with 140s in the 7-08
Recoil's a bit higher than in a full-weight rifle - physics & no free lunch.
Really depends on your nephew's size & sensitivity to recoil. The Wife's 5' even & 100 lbs - no problem with the 7-08 & we really should have picked up another .308 for her - a bit better selection for bullets in the heavier weights.
If you reload, options for down-loading a bit are in the sky's the limit area - or maybe use a bit lighter bullet.
With the 18.5" bbl, I went with Barnes XBT for the alleged added penetration. With 165s @2400fps, they've shot right through three elk so far - one end-to-end. Other than the mentioned MPBR being a bit closer in, I'm not at any disadvantage in the least by not having the higher velocities.
Get that boy a M7. If for elk-sized critters, I'd go for the .308 & if for deer, the 7-08 or .243
BTW, we're getting right at 2600fps with 120s & ~2500fps with 140s in the 7-08