Liberal media? What are we telling them?

D

Dangus

New member
I am interested in doing a little project. It wouldn't cost much and all of you can do it too. What would be useful would be to gather up statistics and information proving that there is indeed no gun problem in our country, and outlining the abuses of organizations like the ATF. Then take these statistics, organize them, without propaganda, just like they are, and deliver them to local news and radio stations. Maybe they are just so liberal because we aren't giving them the facts they are too lazy to get themselves. I know not all of them are rampaging liberals out to take our guns. What do you think? How is best to go about this, and can any of you centralize this data or point us to where it already is centralized?

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
That's been done quite a lot by many organizations and individuals. The NRA, GOA, NSSF, SAF, JFPO, TSRA, etc. all do this.

Join in the effort.

However, I want to comment on your statement that there is no gun problem.

That won't get you anywhere. Obviously, people get shot, injured and killed.

You need a more sophisticated approach based on our rights, the utilitarian need for self-defense as a countervailing good and the fact that better law enforcement would do more to curb the shootings. Also, that gun control measures don't really help that much.

The NY Times surprised me today with an article about a buy back program which after describing it, ended with a paragraph with experts saying the effort was a crock and in fact, counterproductive.

But, it certainly is a good idea to always correct the media.
 
Again, this idea is one of many that is far more constructive than the average gunowners' tactic of doing nothing.
 
But the simple truth is that there indeed is no gun problem. There is a social problem yes, gun problem, no. Our gun accident rates are so low statistically you are more likely to drown then get accidently killed with a gun, and the murder rates are still vastly lower than auto death rates, and people don't have million mom marches to protest the car problem. It's all about FUD. I need help though, a lot of you guys have more organized lists of the statistics than I do, can people get me some info to get this thing started?

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
It may be out there somewhere, but I would like to see the statistics that both sides portray. Each side uses the ones that suit their needs more effectively. I want to see where HCI's stats come from on things like child deaths and where ours come from. I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of the stats on the same issue within the RKBA.

We all know the demographics are different on all the results. So is it out there somewhere? I think that would be a great story. I feel quite confident that our stats are more reliable.

[This message has been edited by HukeOKC (edited July 11, 2000).]
 
absolutely get both sides of it, because I'm certain we'll still look good at the end of the day either way you look at it.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
Read Kleck and Lott's books for a start, they are excellent references.

About there being a gun problem, yes - the issue is a social problem as the Swiss demonstrate that sheer access is not the only driving force.

But you have to be ready to answer the interaction that with our demographics (not those of the Swiss) access does generate a problem. You can't say there is no problem as that will sound silly as we do have a significant number of people shot.

That the accident rates are higher is a good argument but IT does not mean there is no problem.

Look at our ever popular drug war threads.

Alcohol causes 100,000s of deaths and I see no one calling for prohibition again.

Guns produced (somehow) about 18000 death a year (ballpark) and we certainly don't want to ban them.

Cocaine deaths are about 1300 a year and more people seem addicted now that when it was legal. But look at the firestorm when some of us say to legalize them!! Wow.

Many of our members wouldn't buy the argument that since cocaine death numbers are low, that Bordens and Hersheys should start selling Cocaine-Cocoa Chocolate Milk beverage in the liquour stores.

That there are gun deaths mean that you have to make a sophisticated argument. You can say that the stats show that the number of accidents is wildly overplayed by HCI and the like. Then you hit them with the countervailing good that private ownership seems to produce.

Get my drift.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HukeOKC:
It may be out there somewhere, but I would like to see the statistics that both sides portray. Each side uses the ones that suit their needs more effectively. I want to see where HCI's stats come from on things like child deaths and where ours come from. I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of the stats on the same issue within the RKBA.

We all know the demographics are different on all the results. So is it out there somewhere? I think that would be a great story. I feel quite confident that our stats are more reliable.

[This message has been edited by HukeOKC (edited July 11, 2000).][/quote]

The place I'd start is guncite.com. They've got links to most of the major stats (including the Center for Disease Control, where the "12 kids a day" comes from. I'm doing this strictly from (not too recent) memory (I'm way too lazy to look it up), but that number comes from 1997 data that said:

80 kids ages 0-4 died;
110 " 5-9 ";
400 " 10-14 ";
3,900 " 15-19 ";

Ergo, in 1997, 4490 kids died, for an average of about 12 per day.

This ignores who's definition of "children" we choose; the movie theater says 12; the Department of Motor Vehicles says 16; the military, and the Justice oof the Peace, etc., say 18. Certainly, those people a day short of their 20th birthday ought not to be counted as children; but Slick is the Great Prevaricator. What he says is fact. (For Bill Clinton says so, and Bill Clinton is an honorable man... My apologies to Shakespeare....)

Yhis seriously ignores the gang-banger issue, in which those people are responsible for their own lives. Many of these are suicides, which has been proven to be unaffected by gun control. (Japan's suicide rate is twice what our's is) As long as there are tall buildings and bridges, and prescriptions....)

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Scott

When A annoys or injures B on the pretext of saving or improving X, A is a scoundrel. - H. L. Mencken

[This message has been edited by SAGewehr (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
On several different occasions I have heard that 80% of the shootings that occur are drug related. Stop the dope and that will solve the problem.

But then again, some of the treaties that were honered after the ratification of the Constitution were import/export agreements.

Tea, wine, cinnamon, slaves and opium.

Opium was a rich mans vice, now it and other mind altering substances are used to control the people for the rich.

I think a NWO people greatest fear, is an
erudite slave in his right mind.

And this doesn't occur by attending public schools and government subsidized universties.

Waterdog
 
Waterdog,

You might be surprised at how many TFL members attended public schools and/or government subsidized universities.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
Not seperating out gang crime and suicides is a huge problem with those stats. Also declaring 19 year olds children is quite a problem.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
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