I can't seem to get into the archives at the moment, so forgive me if this has been brought up before. I've been very impressed with the accuracy and performance of my Winchester '94 in .45 Colt. I'm thinking of using it instead of a revolver for home defense, but I'm wondering if any companies provide gear to "trick up" old style leverguns. I'd like to get a detachable light, at the very least.
Levergun for home defense
- Thread starter Cosmoline
- Start date
Jeff Thomas
New member
I've gotta see that!
GRH, if you do trick that out, please post some photos. I have never seen a lever action rifle with a 'tactical' light, and never thought I would. Not saying it's a bad idea ... I simply never conceived of it. Interesting project. It would also seem worthy of some careful consideration of ammo selection, considering the circumstances of your home, no?
Good luck. Regards from AZ
GRH, if you do trick that out, please post some photos. I have never seen a lever action rifle with a 'tactical' light, and never thought I would. Not saying it's a bad idea ... I simply never conceived of it. Interesting project. It would also seem worthy of some careful consideration of ammo selection, considering the circumstances of your home, no?
Good luck. Regards from AZ
A Weaver rail in the right spot will work for a light. I've seen them at a SG class and they seemed to work real well. You can snap a Sure Fire, M3 (for Glocks), or the HK UTL on the rail. The M3 runs about $130 and is basically the identical light to the HK. The HK and Sure Fire are over $200. Be sure to epoxy the screws or otherwise secure the rail on to the stock. Double check the fit of the light on the rail and be sure you position it so you can easily handle the light controls. It oughta be real cool when you're done.
ljlc
ljlc
wow, this is odd...
Recently I was talking with a friend of mine about this very same topic. He seemed to think that a lever action in .45 was the way to go.
Just one question, does a .45 levergun fire the same sort of .45 as say, a Colt 1911?
BTW, I do seem to recall reading an article about 2 or 3 years ago about using lever guns in law enforcement. The author had his shipped to a gunsmith who put a container in the stock that held extra ammo.
That's about all I can remember from it though.
Recently I was talking with a friend of mine about this very same topic. He seemed to think that a lever action in .45 was the way to go.
Just one question, does a .45 levergun fire the same sort of .45 as say, a Colt 1911?
BTW, I do seem to recall reading an article about 2 or 3 years ago about using lever guns in law enforcement. The author had his shipped to a gunsmith who put a container in the stock that held extra ammo.
That's about all I can remember from it though.
frontlander
New member
My home defense gun is a Marlin 1894P in .44 mag. It is a great little gun. It has a sixteen inch barrel and holds 9 rounds. I have a neoprene ammo carrier on the buttstock that holds six extra rounds. I've seen leverguns with flashlights attached to the forearms and barrels with tape, crude but effective. The extra weight up front kind of ruins the superb handling qualities of a leverguns. The new small, light, and powerful lights from Surefire and others seem perfect for leverguns.
I believe that a gunsmith by the name of Brockman out of Idaho will install a buttstock cartridge trap. He specializes in leverguns.
The Winchester is chambered for the .45 Colt. The 1911 pistol is chambered for the .45 Auto round. Same bullet diameter, two totally different cartridges.
I believe that a gunsmith by the name of Brockman out of Idaho will install a buttstock cartridge trap. He specializes in leverguns.
The Winchester is chambered for the .45 Colt. The 1911 pistol is chambered for the .45 Auto round. Same bullet diameter, two totally different cartridges.
Caliban - I'm not aware of lever guns in the pistol calibers you specified, but there are of course quite a few in rimmed handgun cartridges like 44 mag/44 Spcl, 357 mag/38 Spcl, and 45 Colt made by Marlin, Winchester and now Rossi. I'm pretty sure that Cimmaron and some of the other Cowboy Action manufacturers also make some of the older pistol/rifle calibers, like 44-40 and (I think) 32-30.
I'm guessing the problem in adapting the semiauto cartridges to lever guns is the difficulty of having to have something akin to a moon clip-type attachment to get them to feed thru a level action.
Without arguing too much over definitions, I would say that pretty much all but the longer-barreled and/or Cowboy styles qualify as carbines. I cetainly think of my Marlin 336M and 1894P as such.
I'm guessing the problem in adapting the semiauto cartridges to lever guns is the difficulty of having to have something akin to a moon clip-type attachment to get them to feed thru a level action.
Without arguing too much over definitions, I would say that pretty much all but the longer-barreled and/or Cowboy styles qualify as carbines. I cetainly think of my Marlin 336M and 1894P as such.
Treeprof, when you're talking about a moon clip-type attachment, do you mean a removeable magazine?
If so, that's not what I was referring to. I would just like to see a standard lever gun that would match common pistol cartridges of today.
Otherwise, I may have misunderstood what you wrote. If I did, please elaborate.
If so, that's not what I was referring to. I would just like to see a standard lever gun that would match common pistol cartridges of today.
Otherwise, I may have misunderstood what you wrote. If I did, please elaborate.
frontlander
New member
Caliban. Have you ever seen a S&W 1917 chambered in .45 acp? The .45 acp cartridge has no rim. In order for the ejector on the revolver to work, it is necessary to install the cartridges into a moon clip. These pieces of stamped metal clamp into the extractor groove of the cartridge and act as a rim. The ejector then pushes on the moon clip and all six cartridges are ejected at the same time. Check out the wheelgun forum. I believe there are some guys there who shoot 10mm revolvers who might have some pics of moon clips.
Most of the leverguns I am aware of are designed to use rimmed cartridges like the .38 special, .357, .44 special, .44 mag., .45 Colt, .30-30, .45-70, etc. Chambering them in pistol cartridges like the 9mm and .45 acp would add no real benefit over existing rifles in .357 mag and .45 Colt.
Most of the leverguns I am aware of are designed to use rimmed cartridges like the .38 special, .357, .44 special, .44 mag., .45 Colt, .30-30, .45-70, etc. Chambering them in pistol cartridges like the 9mm and .45 acp would add no real benefit over existing rifles in .357 mag and .45 Colt.
Ok, I think I finally figured it out...
Ok, what you're saying then is that the action in a levergun needs something to grab onto on the case in order to move the round from the tube to the chamber.
So, the casing is essentially flared out at the bottom like on a .22 rimfire, shotgun shell, or the 7.62x51R.
However, modern pistol cartridges aren't shaped like this, they have that groove in the casing that the ejector grabs onto.
The action of a levergun can't grab onto something like this.
Am I right, or am I still really confused?
Thanks for your patience.
Ok, what you're saying then is that the action in a levergun needs something to grab onto on the case in order to move the round from the tube to the chamber.
So, the casing is essentially flared out at the bottom like on a .22 rimfire, shotgun shell, or the 7.62x51R.
However, modern pistol cartridges aren't shaped like this, they have that groove in the casing that the ejector grabs onto.
The action of a levergun can't grab onto something like this.
Am I right, or am I still really confused?
Thanks for your patience.
frontlander
New member
Caliban, you are right on target.
The Marlin & Winchester lever guns are designed for rimmed cartridges [30-30, 45-70, 357, 44 mag, etc]. But the Savage and Browning lever guns are designed for rimless ones [like 250 savage, 22-250, 300 savage, 308, 30-06, etc.]
If you wanted to pay enough you should be able to get a savage lever gun converted to 45 ACP [like the 1911 shoots] but it might be expensive. The rim of a 45 ACP is same, nominal, size as the 30-06/308 class of cartridges it is just shorter [and not necked down]. So the bolt face wouldn't need to be altered with a savage. You would just need to rebarrel and rechamber and probably make some modifications so the short 45 acp would feed.
BTW a stripper clip for any of the mauser based rifle cartridges will hold 45 acp.
Glamdring scratches his head, wondering why anyone would want a lever gun in 45 acp or 9mm...now a lever gun in 475 Linebaugh
If you wanted to pay enough you should be able to get a savage lever gun converted to 45 ACP [like the 1911 shoots] but it might be expensive. The rim of a 45 ACP is same, nominal, size as the 30-06/308 class of cartridges it is just shorter [and not necked down]. So the bolt face wouldn't need to be altered with a savage. You would just need to rebarrel and rechamber and probably make some modifications so the short 45 acp would feed.
BTW a stripper clip for any of the mauser based rifle cartridges will hold 45 acp.
Glamdring scratches his head, wondering why anyone would want a lever gun in 45 acp or 9mm...now a lever gun in 475 Linebaugh
PC rifles...
I'll admit, I was always somewhat dubious of "PC" when it came to selecting a rifle... seemed a non-issue.
Then came a few days back, when I woke up to hear a woman and her kids screaming for help, and a dog growling like he had hold of the devil himeself. I will admit, after showing up on the porch with a 30-30 in hand, only to see the tail end of a dog fight, I was rather glad I'd not come tearing out with an AK. Seeing as I deal with my neighbors pretty regularly, and most aren't paticularly "gun literate," the women in particular -- it's nice not to now be the neighborhood psycho. So... what do you know, PC "cowboy guns" can be a blessing.
Other lesson from the day -- keep some "easy on" clothes by the bed -- the extra seconds finding something so as not to show up on my porch buck naked could have been a dangerous delay had that overterritorial critter gotten hold of one of the kids instead...
-K
I'll admit, I was always somewhat dubious of "PC" when it came to selecting a rifle... seemed a non-issue.
Then came a few days back, when I woke up to hear a woman and her kids screaming for help, and a dog growling like he had hold of the devil himeself. I will admit, after showing up on the porch with a 30-30 in hand, only to see the tail end of a dog fight, I was rather glad I'd not come tearing out with an AK. Seeing as I deal with my neighbors pretty regularly, and most aren't paticularly "gun literate," the women in particular -- it's nice not to now be the neighborhood psycho. So... what do you know, PC "cowboy guns" can be a blessing.
Other lesson from the day -- keep some "easy on" clothes by the bed -- the extra seconds finding something so as not to show up on my porch buck naked could have been a dangerous delay had that overterritorial critter gotten hold of one of the kids instead...
-K
Yup, and buck naked with an AK would have not been too cool either...
(Just had to say it
)
Really though, my own bedside rifle is currently a .44 Mag Winchester 94 with a 20 inch barrel. Loaded with CCI .44 special 200 grain Gold Dots, I have ten rounds in the tube and plenty of thump on tap. It's reasonably PC, light, and handy. What else could you ask for?
I have been thinking of putting a receiver mounted ghost ring or express style sight on it as I don't really like the buckhorn sights. I'm not a fan of tactical lights, so I'm not looking for one of those. Extra ammo is always a good thing, so I'm considering having a ammo trap mounted in the stock(always liked those on fine european rifles and they ain't that expensive).
As things change I think you'll see a lot more of these lever guns becoming house guns, it's just a natural. Seems like we're coming full circle...
(Just had to say it
)Really though, my own bedside rifle is currently a .44 Mag Winchester 94 with a 20 inch barrel. Loaded with CCI .44 special 200 grain Gold Dots, I have ten rounds in the tube and plenty of thump on tap. It's reasonably PC, light, and handy. What else could you ask for?
I have been thinking of putting a receiver mounted ghost ring or express style sight on it as I don't really like the buckhorn sights. I'm not a fan of tactical lights, so I'm not looking for one of those. Extra ammo is always a good thing, so I'm considering having a ammo trap mounted in the stock(always liked those on fine european rifles and they ain't that expensive).
As things change I think you'll see a lot more of these lever guns becoming house guns, it's just a natural. Seems like we're coming full circle...
Thanks for all the great input! I'm going to be doing some experimenting, and I'll post my results. I am a bit concerned about too much power from the .45 Colt, but I believe this can be corrected by the use of JHP's or pre-fragmented bullets. On the plus side, there's virtually no way I'll miss a moving target inside of 10 yards. I can't say the same for any of my handguns, no matter how much I've practiced with them. In addition, the recoil from the Winchester is next to nothing. The "PC" status of leverguns has already been mentioned. Esp. with the big loop, people think of the Duke or grandpa's deer gun when they see one, not mass shootings. AND, the balance and weight of the '94 and similar leverguns makes them great close-combat weapons even without bullets. Ever seen "Streets of Fire"?
I only live a mile from Wild West Guns. Maybe I'll ask about a custom job.
I only live a mile from Wild West Guns. Maybe I'll ask about a custom job.