Lever Actions - HELP!!!

Bob S

New member
Hello everyone, I really need some good advice from you Rifle pro's! Im an avid handgunner, but really have never been into rifles all that seriously. The only two I own are a ruger 10/22 and an AR-15 in .223. I have decided that I need a rifle that shoots a heavier bullet, for deer hunting, and general home defense. I have pretty much decided on a lever action due to its ease of hanldling in the field and around the house. But I know ABSOLUTELY nothing about lever actions! Here is a list of my many questions:

1. Marlin vs. Winchester?? (I like the feel of Marlin I as of todays trip to the gunshop)

2. What caliber is best in a lever action?? (30-30 looks good, but .357 is interesting because it matches many of my revolvers)

3. Does Marlin make more than one model of 30-30 and what barrel length is the handiest?

4. How much should I expect to pay for a new rifle? And is walmart a good place to buy?

As you can see, I dont know much on lever actions. PLEASE.... give me all the advice you can! Thanks in advance for you responses!
 
Bob ihave a Marlin 16 inch lever action rifle in .357/38. I love it. I find it very accurate ,reliable and very cost effective. Its downfall are it is slow to reload and nedds btter sights. I recently ordered some from ashely outdoors.
I think the .357 cartridge reaslly becomes a screamer when fired out off the 16 inch barrel. It would not be a bad brush gun for smaller dear,provided you were fairly close. For personal defense it should be great. better than most pistol rounds fire from pistols/revolvers. Another plus is it will fire 38 specials. Ammo is also very affordable. I also have not sen any one out toban lever action rifles yet,howevr im sure its coming!!!
 
Bob , I have owned both but prefer Marlin . If you are going to use it primarily for deer hunting I would get the 30-30 without question , but if you want ammo compatibility with your revolvers go with the .357 , they also have a .44 version that would be good for hog hunting , short range deer and home defense . I sold my AR and now my 30-30 is my home defense rifle . They have a lot of choices . Good luck , Mike...
 
Your choice of Caliber is going to depend entirely on what ranges you might shoot deer.
Theres not much to choose between Marlin and Winchester. Both are nice rifle with similar handling characteristics. The 30/30 will get you out to 150 yards or a little more.

If you want a little bit more and are willing to pay for it, the Browning BLR is far superior to either of those two rifles. It comes in true long range calibers like 7mm or 300 mag or a short action version in calibers like .308 or 7mm08. Its smoother, stronger and far more accurate.

I'd avoid a .357 for deer hunting. Its adequate at short ranges but not really recommended.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Well, first of all, it's hard to beat a good lever action. They're handy as a pocket on a shirt, they're usually very reliable, they're very fast-handling, often capable of darned good accuracy, they're usually reasonably priced, and, most importantly, they're well-received by the public and don't cause alarm.

To answer your questions, by the numbers:

1. Marlin vs. Winchester?? (I like the feel of Marlin I as of todays trip to the gunshop)


Coke or Pepsi? Mercedes or BMW? Mustard or ketchup? Go with the one that feels better to you. Sounds like you favored the Marlins. Strictly comparing Marlin 336's to Winchester M-94's, I can tell you that, on the average, the 336's shoot tighter groups than the M-94's, but that the M-94 actions are usually slicker, and feed better. Regular '94's had to have an offset scope to the left, as they ejected straight up. I don't know if all '94's are now "Angle Eject"; some are, at least. 336's are all "Angle Eject", and you can mount a scope right over the receiver, thereby making your handy, sturdy little carbine into an ungainly, delicate rifle. But to each his own. Each is tapped for receiver peep sights. (HIGHLY reccomended.)

2. What caliber is best in a lever action?? (30-30 looks good, but .357 is interesting because it matches many of my revolvers)


I like .30-30 over .357. .30-30 is no great power-house as a rifle cartridge, but it is a rifle cartridge. It's thick on the ground, and very cheap, as loaded ammo goes; well-under $10/box, usually. This business of mating your pistol ammo to your rifle is an excellent solution to a problem I've never yet encountered, nor have I met anyone else who has. It is a very rare thing that you would EVER need more than 10 rounds of rifle ammo for a hunt. 5 rounds in the magazine and 9 on the buttcuff on the stock gives a man 14 rounds of centerfire rifle ammo, and that's generally enough to fight the good fight! .357, however, is really a bit sparse at 100 yards, even through the carbine (it only picks up about 150 fps in velocity. Some loads maybe 200 fps...). I personally do not think of the .357 carbine as a 100 yard deer combination, nor do I feel it's really adequate as a defensive rifle. It only slightly extends the range beyond your pistol.

Other options would be .45-70 (oh yes!), .35 Remington (basicaly just like the .30-30, but the ammo's not as common, and it costs more, usually), .44 Magnum (better than .357, but not as good as .30-30. Oh yeah, you didn't say you had a .44 pistol. Maybe an excuse to get one... :) ), .444 Marlin (almost as good as .45-70... nah!), .45 Colt (fun! But see .44 Mag.).

Or, you could get a Browning Lever Action (BLR) in .308 (lightweight version), which can shoot spitzer bullets (with better ballistic coefficients) because of it's detatchable box magazine. These are more expensive, and aren't cowboy at all, and are very cool, nonetheless.

3. Does Marlin make more than one model of 30-30 and what barrel length is the handiest?

They do, and I like the 336 the best. 16" is really, really handy, but for sight radius and reduction of blast and better velocity, go with the 20".

4. How much should I expect to pay for a new rifle? And is walmart a good place to buy?

The mid to high $300's. Wal Mart is not a good place to buy. The service just isn't there, and you're screwing your local small gun shop when you go to the MEGA store that sells with a 4% profit margin. Buying from Wally World saves you a couple of bucks now, but puts your local small shops out of business, leaving you only Wal Mart. This leaves it up to THEM to make up THEIR minds as to whether or not to let you order pistols through them (they stock NO pistols, now, so you can't handle them in advance), and to decide if they will keep selling them low, or to jack up the prices, as they've done in the past with drug stores and other shops.

I love free enterprise, but believe me, you're getting much, much more for your money if you'll just spend it at your favorite local gun shop. Don't have one yet? Ask around. You MIGHT find a good deal on a nice used one. These things are very often traded in at pawn shops, with plenty to choose from.

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Wow. How I ramble. Hope this helps.


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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
Greetings,

I grew up with father and mother and their lever actions, and all my experience comes from them.

However I don't own one. One day I will, but at the rate they're going, I'll be 65 when it happens.

That said, here are my answers to your questions:

1. Marlin vs. Winchester?? (I like the feel of Marlin I as of todays trip to the gunshop)

I know that the Marlin is easier to break down for cleaning. A little ease goes a long way for me.

2. What caliber is best in a lever action?? (30-30 looks good, but .357 is interesting
because it matches many of my revolvers)

Well, dad was able to do one shot kills. I know this as I saw them happen. Not sure how far away the shots were though as I was never paying that much attention to distance back then....my job was to administer the coup de grace with my .22 if the deer were still alive when we got to it. Never needed it. I don't recall the weight of the bullet but it was a flat point with just a small circle of lead showing top dead center....from what I've used wild pig shooting now-a-days, I'd wager they were 160 gr flat points or very close to it.

3. Does Marlin make more than one model of 30-30 and what barrel length is the handiest?

Unknown on the 30-30 aspect of the question, but Marlin will put any length barrel you want on it. Without special handling however, you can get a 20 and 18 incher for .357. I personally like the longer barrel.

4. How much should I expect to pay for a new rifle? And is walmart a good place to buy?

Gunshow price for a NIB Marlin in .357 was going for $305 this spring. Without knowing your finances, I'd say skip the Walmart thing. Call me stupid or foolish if you must, but I enjoy the gunshop banter and service, and besides, I occasionally get deals from the gunshop that makes up for other costs and besides, it makes me feel good about myself. But if money is super tight and you are super eager, then do the Walmart thing and make no apologies.

Duncan


[This message has been edited by Duncan (edited September 07, 1999).]
 
Thanks for all your great responses! After reading them, I've pretty much decided on a Marlin 30-30 with a 20 inch barrel. But that brings on another question. I know that you all HATE to see me buy from walmart, but I've looked at a gunshop at a Marlin 336W selling for around $300, while walmart is having a sell on the same 336W for $239. Thats a huge difference when finances are tight. But thats not my question... Is the Model 336CS much nicer than the Model 336W?? Or is it the same gun without the true walnut stock. I can live with the "walnut finished" birch stock on the 336W, but dont want to give up any accuracy or quality in the action. Does anyone know much about comparing these two guns? (maybe I'll start a new thread with this question) Thanks again.
 
Yes, I will agree that lever action rifles are great all around guns. The .30-30 cartrige has been around for a long time and can certainly handle any hunting/self-defense task you throw at it. I do like the Winchester 94's more than the other makes and models. I have an old 94 which is starting to collect rust, I think I'll pick up on of those newer 16" trapper carbines. Take a look around, when Washington has declared our semi-auto's unsuitable for civilian use, your trusty lever gun will still be around!
 
I prefer the Winchester but own both and the only thing really wrong with a Marlin is they put too much wood in the forend. Go with the .30-30. I would buy used. There are millions of them out there and it should be no problem to get one for $175-225. Another advantage to going with a used one is to get away from the abomination called the cross bolt safety. That safety appears to me to be a great way to get yourself killed if relying on a leveraction for a defense gun. Forgoing the safety in the hunting field you would not get to observe the surprised look on the deer's face right before it runs when your rifle makes a loud metallic snap.
 
I'm a lever lover! Even though the question has pretty much been answered, I'll throw in my $.02.
Marlin's are fine rifles, but I prefer the Winchesters.
Seeing as you're new to rifles, the 20 inch 30-30 is probably best for you. Dandy huntin' rifle that will serve for self defense. For pure defensive work, I'd go with the 16 inch in a pistol caliber probably .44 mag or .45 Colt. Shorter barrel makes for easier handling in close quarters.
As for Wally world, I completely understand your position. Money is tight.
Try to find a good used rifle. You can save money, avoid Wal-mart and get one without that stupid saftey.
JMHO.
 
Grayfox, et al make good points all.

That's quite a diffence in price. Are you CERTAIN they're the same rifles? If so, then bring it up the the shop owner. It's very possible that he can get his price a little closer to Wally World's.

As others have mentioned, there are big advantages to shopping for a good used one, namely price and no safety. A friend of mine managed to pick up a Pre-'64 Model 94 in .30-30 in 90% condition for $250. When I sighted it in for him, it shot 3 groups in a row under 1.5" at 100 yards!!! Excelent specimen, highly collectible, unusually accurate for the model (phenomenal, actually), and he walked out of that pawn shop to under $275 with it?!?

Wish *I'd* bought it!!!
 
Bob. I can understand your reluctance to pay the higher price. Especially just for a difference in wood. However the more expensive one may have a better finish, checkering on the wood, and whatever else.
If the Marlin feels better to you, go for it.
Nice thing about a 30-30. You can find ammo just about anywhere on the planet. If you decide to get into reloading, fine. You can even duplicate factory ammo with cast lead bullets. I've used them for years. Save your brass. If anyone tells you that Marlins won't shoot cast lead, tell them they're full of prunes, or whatever substance you'd rather choose. It takes a bit of work finding out what Micro-groove barrels like, but it can be done. I was shooting some in my Marlin and Winchesters one day at the range. The guy next to me was shooting his Marlin with cast lead too, and cussing up a storm. I gave him 5 of my rounds and he shot a 3 inch group at 100 yards. I was getting from 2 to 2.5 in. groups from my rifles. After questioning him on his loads, I told him what I had done. He took notes. The next time I saw him, he was getting good groups in the same range as mine. It can be done.
If there are any gun shows in your area, look for a rifle there. You can save some bucks, and a good clean rifle should last forever, or close to it. Try the pawn shops. I mentioned in another thread that I'd found a used Winchester 94 in 30-30 for $100. I had to put a new firing pin in it and I put a cheapie peep sight on it. I just put sling swivel studs on it, and I still haven't got $200 tied up in it. The outside looks like hell, but mechanically is it sound. It lives behind the seat of my pick up truck 365 days of the year, rain or shine. I won't say how many deer it has taken in the 7 or 8 years I have had it, but it has never failed me yet.
I have small hands, so Marlins feel clubby to me. Somebody said they put too much wood in them, and I agree.
I use 170 gr. bullets exclusively in factory and jacketed handloads, and 175 to 190 gr. bullets in cast lead. The 190's are an experiment to try and duplicate the old .303 Savage. I was talking to an old timer (91 years old) and he was telling me how the 303 Savage killed elk way better than the 30-30. He used Winchester ammo with the 190 gr. Silvertip. Said they penetrated better. I'll bet. Remington only loaded a 180 gr. bullet, and he said it didn't work as well.
The 30-30 is a good round. A fun cartridge. You can do a lot with it, especially if you reload. I would never, ever find myself without a good 30-30.
Paul B.
 
I would recommend the Marlin for anyone who is going to reload. It is a stronger action and is not subject to the receiver stretch that the 94 is. Over the years I have seen more 94s brought in for head space trouble caused by trying to get a little more MV than the book allows. If buying a used 94 that is something to be checked.
 
I'm considering a lever-action as well so I have a couple of questions of my own. First off, I have noticed in many posts that there is a lot of discontent with certain safeties. So, I would like to know what exactly is the deal with these, i.e. what makes them so undesirable, how are they a disadvantage in self-defense sitations (one poster mentioned something to this effect), etc. Also, if they are so bad, how can I avoid them, i.e. what models and what years should I avoid.

And a second question (maybe this needs to be a new thread?): lots of people have recommended seeking out a good used lever-action...what does someone relatively ignorant on this subject look for when handling a prospective purchase at the local gunshop?

Thanks all!
 
BAB,
Several years ago USRAC started putting a cross bolt type saftey in the frame of the 94 just in front of the hammer. In the safe position it will block the hammer from contacting the firing pin. I believe Marlin uses a similar set-up, but, I'm not sure as I haven't really looked at a new one for quite a while.
At any rate, the saftey is in a bad place to start with as most people have to release their grip on the firing hand to work it. That makes it slow to operate. Bad for a defensive weapon. Most have a rather sharp "click" when operated. Bad for a hunting rifle.
But probably the biggest gripe about 'em is that it completely ruins the classic looks of the lever gun that is one of it's greatest appeals.
 
I'm a little late on my post but I'm in the mood to voice my opinion.

I own three lever actions and have used all of them for a lot of fun shooting and hunting.

The oldest one I own is a Savage 99 in .308.
The last one made with the rotary magazine and cartridge counter. A true american Classic.It shoots like the thurobred it looks like. It is not a close action rifle though.

The next oldest is a Marlin .41 magnum that was made in a limited run. This has been my one major travel gun that goes everywhere with me along with my S&W MD.58s. What can I say I like the .41 and have never been disapointed. I'm a little weird that way.

The last leveraction I have was a gun show trade of a Wnchester Wrangle 16" with wide lever loop. What red blooded American John Wayne fan could turn that one down. The plus to this one was the excellent Williams Peep sight that had been installed by the last owner. It also does not have the cross bolt safty. Not needed since you do not chamber a round until you are ready to shoot. This is a great woods farm gun.

As to my preference I like the Marlin the best for a carbine (The Savage is a rifle).I think the frame and action will outlast the Winchester. I would reccomend you put a set of Ashley sights on it and add a sling.

Also if you would care to reload you might consider a Marlin in .35 REM. There are some loads for this in some of the reloading manuals useing .357 pistol bullets that are devistating. They are noted to NOT USE ON EDIBLE GAME.

My next lever action will be a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. This is NOT a house defense gun.

Cheers,

and good hunting.

ts
 
I think all the new W94s have angle eject, but THAT (anti-litigation)SAFETY !!!..legal eagles rule OK...

While this is a bit naughty to 'Lever Action People' like you all and while do have an M94(and I agree with all the foregoing and particularly about supporting local small gunshops). Yes.. it is the old one, straight ejection, buckhorn sights and walnut stock)in 30/30 for target use, BUT I would recommend at least considering a Sturm-Ruger M.44 gas operated auto 5 shot (44 Rem Magnum pistol round at 1,850 FPS) aperture sights or W/A 2.5X scope for close/heavy brush use and up to 100m range with 180gn pills. A fine tool.

NOW...Will you lynch me now - or later...



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***Big Bunny***
 
Big Bunny--

You're sunk, man! That you should hope to convince us that a handy carbine that has good knockdown power and comparible range but does't need to be hand-cycled (!)-- it's incredible.

Go, and sin no more. :)

L.P.
 
what's the scoop on the Winchester big-bore levers (specifically the one in .444 Marlin)? I haven't seen one in person yet, but if one has to have a model 94, that might be a nice one to get...

and just to put *my* neck in a noose, it looks like there are certain models of the 94 which come with black plastic stocks. I guess many would consider that heresy, but it would serve the "truck gun" concept well, not to mention folks in wet climes. how about a model 94 in .444, plastic furniture, hard-chromed, with a camo finish... :0
 
Ivanhoe---

One of the magazines-- I want to say American Rifleman? Did a compare and contrast with Marlin's and Winchester's respective short .444's and .45-70's, and found them both excelent, with the Marlin a tad better shooter, but you got a substantially lower price with the Winchester.

Frankly, I don't have the least problem with a synthetic-stocked lever gun, esp. if it's chromed, like some custom shops are offering. The .444 is a modern caliber-- who are you going to offend? ;) The lever-action is alive and well as a modern incarnation, and you should not be ashamed of utilizing new materials for stocking and finishing it any more than you would be ashamed of using modern powders, modern bullets, modern steel (metalurgy has come a fair piece in the last 100+ years!) to get the most out of your rifle.

So if you want to put an aluminum-bodied peepsight on it with a good nylon sling and a stretchy Sidekick cartridge carrier pinned on the butt, with a synthetic stock, handloads of a moly-coated XTP 300 grainer at 2000 fps in your .444, hey! Go for it! You're ultra-modern, and master of everything within 200 yards. :)

Frankly, I like the .45-70 over the .444, in just about any loading, but that's personal preference.

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 
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