Letter from Ruger concerning 10mm

C

Carbon_15

New member
Out of about a dozen letters and e-mails I sent to a dozen or so firearms companys, Ruger was the only one to reply. Unfortuantly it was to say that they had no plans for a 10mm pistol.
There IS demand for a new 10mm (or a current model re-chambered). If the gun makers get enough letters and e-mails asking for a new 10mm they will make it. If we ask for it enough we just might get it. Its time for another wave of requests 10mm fans. Invite a sales rep to TFL to take a look at all of the desire for 10mm pistols. A simple search on this small BBS will turn up enough "I wish so-in-so made a 10mm pistol, then I would buy one" posts to make such a venture profitable. It also wouldnt hurt to point out the lengths and expense many of us are going to to convert exising .40 pistols to 10mm, just so we can have an alternative.
Thank you,
Jason


Para-ordinance
sales@paraord.com

H&K
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/home.html
H&K Dosnt take customer e-mails "in an effor to properly respond to the customers needs" Telephone: (703) 450-1900

Ruger
MARKETING
(928) 541-8820
Also dosnt accept e-mails

SIG
marketing@sigarms.com


Walther USA
customerservice@walther-usa.com

CZ
info@cz-usa.com

Beretta USA
http://berettausa.com/customer_service/email_form.cfm
or email@berettausa.com
 

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My only complaint w/ 10mm is the tried & true "cost and availability" card :( If the round were easier to find and cost came down, I might think about another ;)
 
Carbon...

You said, " A simple search on this small BBS will turn up enough "I wish so-in-so made a 10mm pistol, then I would buy one" posts to make such a venture profitable." Unfortunately, not all of those enthusiastic replies will actually result in a sale, and the manufacturers know that. To justify re-tooling for a new caliber they have to have thousands of sales, not the hundreds represented by the responses on one of these boards.

As for, " the lengths and expense many of us are going to to convert exising .40 pistols to 10mm...", I have twice tried to sell a Clark 6" match grade barrel for a Para 16 to convert it to 10mm on this board. Never got one response or inquiry.

Sure there are some dedicated 10mm shooters out there and unlike others I don't think the 10mm cartridge is ready for the grave yard. That being said, the demand just isn't there to expect much new from the gun manufacturers.
 
The 10mm was only popular in the 1911, and there long-term durability is a concern. Maybe Wilson Combat should think about a KZ-45 in 10mm.
 
"the demand just isn't there to expect much new from the gun manufacturers."
"To justify re-tooling for a new caliber they have to have thousands of sales, not the hundreds represented by the responses on one of these boards"

How many folks on here, or anywhere else, do you see begging for a new 45-70 revolver? How many recent threads have there been asking for a new .410 deringer? Somehow these and many other nitch and odd-ball guns get produced. If Taurus can sell enough Rageing Hornet .22 hornet revolvers to justify re-tooling, I know someone could make money off of a new 10mm. I mean, someone is buying all the Glock 21/29's and EAA Witnesses...Right?

Kermit, its a matter of the chicken or the egg.
 
I thought the P-90 frame was designed for the 10mm. That means a new barrel and some changes to the slide. If the slide is CNC'ed from a solid piece then it is mostly a little change in programming and a new extractor. It doesn't take that many units to make it profitable. Maybe not the most profitable item, but with the right marketing not a money pit either. Maybe they have the original barrel and slide, reducing new development costs.

From what has been said, the critical part is having enough spring to keep the frame from cracking.
 
I have sent e-mails to SIG, Wilson, Smith, and CZ about introing or reintroing 10mm pistols. No soap. They probably think we are all the same crazy guy e-mailing them about the 10.
 
:confused: We all are certainly entitled to our likes and dislike but what do you see in the 10mm? Everything that I have read could be summed up as .. great idea but poor execution. I'm not finding fault. I just want to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
 
That would take all day shermdo:)
Basicly, the reason I origonal picked up on the 10mm, was so that I could have a capable woods defence round in a semi-auto platform, that could double as a 2-legged defence round. I do alot of camping, hikeing, fishing and hunting in an area infested with wild and/or ferel hogs. The 10mm is more than capable of putting down a big mean wild bore (with proper shot placememnt and load selection). There are other calibers that can do this reliably, but they are all revolver launched. Since hogs travel in packs, a high-cap semi auto with fast reloads seemed like a good option to me. Add to that the fact that if things get really screwy, I can put venison on the table or engauge man-sized targets at 100+ yards, and you have a winner in my book. I cant thing of a better survival/bug-out sidearm than a Glock 20 stoked with Silvertips. Makes a good CCW when its cold enough to wear a jacket for concealment.
Its also a very accurate round. Its not as expensive to feed as most folks think. Ammo prices are exactly the same for 10mm as for .40, .45 and .357mag in my area. I promise you guys, the first time you hit a water filled milk jug with a 10mm HP from 50 yards, you will be hooked. The ensuing rain is very confidence enspireing.
Why do I like the 10mm? How can anyone look at the ballistics data and NOT? What do you mean by "poorly executed"...marketing? If you want my opinion, the introduction of the watered down 10mm Short (AKA .40S&W) coupled with an exagerated rumor of excesive recoil and an overly recoil shy public (who seemes so want a pistol and round that they can buy, shoot once a year, and be a match grade marksman with)was the downfall of the 10mm.
 
Problems with the 10mm:

1) It's difficult to train uniformed officers in rank and file to fire it effectively.
2) It was dropped by the FBI after they first accepted it, then downloaded it in a vain attempt to get small-stature wimps to shoot it... these are ELITE small-stature wimps by the way.
3) No cartridge will enjoy success unless it is first adopted by a number of police and/or military organizations.
4) Guns chambered for it have to be designed for it for the most part.
5) Once bitten, twice shy. The 10mm had it's day and flopped.
6) Glock and Tanfoglio make excellent examples. These make up such a small percentage of their sales that there is no "Great Demand" to satisfy from a sales point of view. Why pump any money into developing a gun that won't sell well.
7) What can the 10mm do that neither the 45, 40, 9mm, or 357 Sig do? Not much... maybe overpenetrate.

10mm guns are Big, Loud, and obnoxious to the majority of shooters. Those who own and shoot them generally love them. That's understandable. I love the .358 Winchester, I just don't expect everybody to love it also.

I can counter the 10mm crowd by saying, "Hey, what about the 400 CorBon? This has more potential and the only change required is a Barrel swap. Man the 10 sucks in comparrison." End of argument. The 10mm is likely dead along with the 400, 41AE, and the 38/45. Let it die.
 
I can counter the 10mm crowd by saying, "Hey, what about the 400 CorBon? This has more potential and the only change required is a Barrel swap.
Click to expand...

.45 Super doesn't even require the barrel swap.
 
You know, I hear resonses like Badger Arms all the time. More often than not, from folks who own .44 mags, 357mags and 12 guage shotguns.
"What can the 10mm do that neither the 45, 40, 9mm, or 357 Sig do" Um...take down a whitetail reliably...um save my a$$ in the woods.
I'm not trying to make anyone like the 10mm. If you dont like it, fine. I do. Many other people do. I just want the gun makers to give us what we want.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
Please give this a read Badger. It might give you an idea why so many folks love the 10mm.


You know Badger, the more I think about #1 and 2, the more it scares me. My wife and best friends Girlfriend both regularly shoot full power 10mm ammo from a Glock 20 and 29. They are both typical small framed women who did not grow up in "the gun culture". Neither of them find the 10mm hard to controle or uncomfortable. For that mater, I'm pretty small framed at 6-2 140lbs, and have no problem shooting the 10 all day. You mean to tell me ther are FBI agents and police officers graduating from the accademy who cant controle a 10mm....the how can they controle a po'd suspect? Ask anyone who has actualy fired a 10mm (even those with preconseaved notions about recoil) and most if not all will tell you its not that bad. Its definatly more controlable than a 4inch .357 revolver.
 
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The Ruger P90 to 10mm thought...

Croyance,

Ruger produced the P91, which was a full size frame in .40S&W, very much like the P90.

Now, I'm not sure if the P91 slide would work on the P90 frame, as I don't have my P91 anymore to compare with a friends P90. If it would work(P91 slide to P90 frame), then the breechface issue would be resolved(P90 breechface is too large as it is .45 ACP size) and the only other major issues would be mag/feed and rechambering to 10mm.

Though I think that a new 10mm specific barrel and recoil spring(s), as well as possible recoil buffer would also be a good idea.

Just a little food for thought.


Carbon_15,

Badger Arms is probably from the same mind-set that believed that removing the 10mm from IDPA CDP was a good idea.

Well, just as you or me, he has a right to his own opinion
 
.45 Super & .400 Cor-Bon are neither as good ballistically as 10mm.Now .40 Super is a different animal altogether-1600 fps,with as much energy at 100 yds as the .45 ACP has at the muzzle.
 
7) What can the 10mm do that neither the 45, 40, 9mm, or 357 Sig do?
What can the .357 do that the .38 can't? sounds kinda silly now dosnt it. Well actualy, there is more difference between the 10mm and .40 than the .38 and .357mag.

38 Special +P 125gr JHP 1125 fps / 351 ft/lbs
357 Magnum 125gr JHP 1450 fps / 584 ft/lbs
A difference of 325fps

10mm Cor Bon 180 JHP 1300 fps / 675 ft/lbs
.40 S&W Remington 180gr GS-HP 894 fps / 319ft/lbs
.40 Federal 180gr Federal Hydrashock 915 fps/ 334 ft/lbs
a difference of 406 and 385 fps.

What can the 10mm do that that other auto pistol calibers can't..a good bit. Why do you load .357's and not .38's into your magnum revolver for serious business? This is the same reason I choose the 10mm over other autoloader chamberings for 2 and 4 legged defence. Though on certain ocassions I have been know to carry .45's, 9mm's and even .32's and .22's when dress would not permit me to carry my big 10mm auto...but dont tell, OK. I'm not saying the 10mm is the be-all-end-all and all other calbiers are moot. But you cant deny its effectiveness if you just look at the raw numbers. Bias aside, its the best thing going in an automatic pistol. In my opinion the .400 Cor-bon is just plain silly. Where is the nead for a pistol that exactly duplicates the 10mm's ballistics BUT with the lower capacity of a .45.
 
C15 good examples. I hear the same illogical stuff about the 10mm from folks too. "It`s too powerful to control." Huh? It`s basically a .40cal .357 magnum in auto form. Tell me law enforcement personel and regular joe`s haven`t been shooting and controling the .357 magnum just fine for like 65 years! What`s more we all (owners of 10mms) know the 10mm kicks less in an auto than a .357magnum in a revolver of the same weight. Double standard anyone? "What will the 10mm do that the .40 won`t do?" I say what will a .357 Magnum do that a .38 Special won`t? Same difference! If someone went around saying the .357Mag. was on it`s way out and was a dead cartridge because the .38 works just as good and the .357 is just too powerfull for mere mortals to shoot well,and what purpose did it serve anyway? Everyone would think they were freakin loosin it.....and they`d be right! :p Marcus
 
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