Let's talk about Concealable Body Armor (Level IIIA or SK I)

P

Para Bellum

New member
My job made me a witness in a criminal case. As a consequence I received a threat and was advised to carry Concealable Body Armor. That made me think a bit. So, folks:

1.) When do you / would you carry it?

2.) What are your experiences with it?
 
If I thought my life were in danger, I'd wear it everytime I left the house. I have a 3A vest and hope to never need it.
 
I carry Glocks 24/7 for years. I intend to wear the armor only in high-risk situations, e.g. at said court hearing or when aggressive confrontation is likely.
 
Body Armor

I have a little experience in Florida and my advice is to not go cheap. Compare and get the lightest and most breathable for the money, and lighter is costlier. In the old days we wore level IIa, and thought II was too heavy to conceal. IIIa was for SWAT raid vests. Now the light and fancy stuff made of godknowswhatium is lighter in II than the old IIa. Depends on what the likely threat is, pistols or AP .30-06. The IIa stops most everything on the streets around here, YMMV.

Bottom line, if it's not comfortable, you won't wear it when you should. If you don't wear it, it won't protect you. If you knew you were going to need it, you would be better off not going there than stopping to put your vest on.

There are lots of good used, LEO surplus vests and such online with a bit of looking. Even Ebay has them.:rolleyes:
 
what I am thinking about is a German SK-I that is stronger than IIIA

Thanks for the advice.

I won't go for cheap here. Just imagine how deeply one could regret saving on the quality of body armor....:(

So, what I am thinking about is a German SK-I that is stronger than IIIA.
Something like that:

9CFL.jpg


here's what the manufacturer gives warranty for:
The lastest version of COP® concealable body armour:
"COP® Specialist FL" - flexible + light (FL)
TR 12/2003 certified.
Extremely light! Only 42 g/dm² weight.
Material: 100% Aramid
The average trauma depth only 27 mm
Penetration during the V50 test occured at 485 m/s.
Click to expand...
 
Sizing.

The trick to body armor, concealable or otherwise (I've worn Point Blank IBA and SAPI plates through two Iraq tours now) is sizing.

Your regular shirt size IS NOT THE SAME! Would be great if it were so, but there a too many places a vest must fit and fit CORRECTLY if it's going to work.

Buy in person if you can. If not, at least try and get a chance to try some on somewhere. Find out your sizing requirements before you buy, especially if you buy online.

Also, your style of dress may make a difference. A vest that will conceal under a shirt and tie will also conceal under a sweatshirt, but likely not vice versa.

The key points are the chest, abdomen, and side closures. If you get hit wearing one with too much room in the chest, you risk broken ribs (you'll probably have a few even with a properly fitted vest) and impact trauma to the heart/lungs. If it doesn't fit in the abdomen, you risk impact damage and internal bleeding in the guts. No one wants a ruptured liver. The side closures are the biggie. If you have too much excess, they'll bunch up under shirt and not conceal. Too short and you A) leave your kidney area exposed, and B) have a vest that is likely too tight or won't stay closed, again causing comfort/concealment issues.

Just some thoughts. Might be different for you, but things to consider nonetheless. Hope that's helpful.
 
These people are at the local good gunshow everytime. I bought 3 vests (me and friends) from them. All IIIa's. They also have 4's, plates, etc. Like said above, get fitted in person if you can.
 
Just some thoughts. Might be different for you, but things to consider nonetheless. Hope that's helpful.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot 38Splfan. I'll get it fitted in person. The shopowner is a friend and takes time for that. Hope you got back from Iraq well!
 
So, what I am thinking about is a German SK-I that is stronger than IIIA.
Click to expand...

Given that it is made from the same material many IIIA vests are made from, aramid, then my guess is that if it is "stronger than IIIA" then it must have more layers than American vests and hence be heavier.

I am not sure what "stronger than IIIA" means actually. Just what rounds is the German vest made out of the same stuff used by American companies going to stop that American vests will not stop?

It may be a fine vest, but you don't get much better ballistic protection from a soft vest (made of the same material) unless you start adding layers (hence increasing weight), or adding additional materials such as hard armor. They may be using a different weave for the aramid fibers that might change things a bit, but not a whole lot.
 
IIIA vs SK-1

Here's a table specifying the classes and requirements. It is in German, but the neccessary info is easy to understand (meters/second etc):

tab_schutzklassen.gif


Additional to US IIIA, German SK-1 requries its standards also the "aufgesetzte Schuss" which is a shot where the muzzle touches the vest.
 
So it is tested differently and they use 9mm fmj that is clocked 15 m/s slower? Okay. Since it is made of the same materials as US vests, what is the catch if it is supposed to be better? Do you have more layers and a thicker vest?

With the soft armor, it really comes down to layers, especially when comparing vests made of the same materials. How many layers will it take to stop a round. Weave can come into play as well with some companies suggesting their thread size and weave is better, but there does not appear to be any remarkable differences.
 
Talk to the folks at bulletproofme.com, they know their stuff.

But this is a gear question. Neither training nor tactics.:rolleyes:
 
Just realized that I talked about DPI, but didn't post a link. Here you go: http://www.bulletproofvestusa.com/

On a side note, I did a ride-along with Las Vegas Metro on Friday and wore my vest. I have to say it didn't bother me a bit. I decided on wearing one UnderArmor heatgear tight fitting shirt against my body, then the vest over that, then another UA heatgear tight shirt, one size smaller, over the vest to keep it in place. Then a regular long sleeve polo over that. Very comfortable for the day.
 
I wouldn't necessary describe 3A or greater vests as "concealable."

Concealable as can be worn under garments? Yes.
Concealable as in an observer will not notice? No.

Mileage varies. If you're large and your mode of dress allows for it you may be successful.

What will you be wearing to court, by the way? I can't get my regular sport and suit coats over my concealable armor; expect to have to go up in size and have them tailored. The dress shirts, too.
 
What's your reasonable threat expectation, by the way? It will help tailor a less generic answer from the crowd.
 
"The average trauma depth only 27 mm" - German SK-I

Only 1 point something inches? wow. That's alot less than I expected, but then again I don't know much about body armor, and hope to dear God I never need to learn :eek:
 
A reputable maker's 2 or 3a vest should serve you well, in that case.

Follow the measuring instruction provided prior to order carefully if you cannot find someone who knows how to do it.

Best,
Erik
 
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