Lets craft a "gunshow loophole" law.... on our own terms

W

wacki

New member
One fight we won't likely win is keeping background checks out of gunshows in the long run. As soon as a Virginia Tech style massacre occurs with something bought at a gun show that "loophole" will probably be closed. I just don't see us winning this long term. I was thinking that if the firearm community made a deal and created a law that BOTH parties could live with then we would be far better off in the long run. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.....

Gun owners (like myself) are worried about people like Obama banning their guns and grabbing them 5-10 years down the road. After reading the threads on THR about sheriffs looking up rifle purchases that were made 20 years ago, I understand the urge to buy outside of a FFL transaction.

So I was thinking that maybe the NRA should push for a law that would allow concealed carry permit holders to purchase weapons while bypassing the NICS check. Why do a redundant background check anyway? In a "loophole free" gunshow this could prevent violent felons from purchasing guns while protecting the privacy of proper citizens.
This law could be played as a way to
*safely close the loophole
*protect privacy
*preemptively strike gun registration
depending on what side of the political fence you are sitting on.

What do you think?
 
It would have to be done state by state

Because not all states have concealed carry permits. I believe there are still a couple of states that do not require any permit at all. How would these states do it?

My own state has a 5 day waiting period, unless you have a CWP, then the state waiting period is waived. Still have to do the NICS telephone check thing though.

I have always thought what we ought to be doing is to elect one (more if possible) strong progun Congressman/Senator, who would insert a single line into bills that reads something like "change line xxxx of law xxxx.xxxx to read xyz, etc."

Slipping a single line like that into one of the 900plus page must pass bills, to gut the onerous provisions of gun control laws, one small bite at a time. On the Q-T, so to speak. They do things like this all the time, giving money to their universities, funding studies, and other pork barrel projects hidden (and not so hidden) inside other legislation. Why not use the same tactic to refund the right to have gun rights restored (on a case by case basis) or to re-open the civilian machine gun registry, or someother worth while measure that would certainly be hammered to death in an open debate.

Lots of the time our legislators do not have the time to read the entire bills before voting on them, and rely on summaries prepared by their staff.n Who know what we might be able to get passed without calling our enemies attention to it?
 
A gunshow purchase from a non-licensed individual is nothing more than a face-to-face purchase. To make any changes regarding a gunshow loophole, you'd have to change the FTF allowance for gun purchases even between friends and relatives. Not enforceable. So for a gunshow restriction, you would have to prevent people selling guns FTF just because of their proximity to a licensed dealer or something like that. The only way to do any of that is by gun registration. Not an option IMO.

What we need to do is push more RTKBA freedoms and the antis won't be able to even address the gunshow loophole.

Also, we need more younger people interested in shooting sports. We don't want gunowner population to dwindle by attrition.
 
it is legal in my state to have private firearms transactions regardless of if i am at a gunshow or not.
why would i set myself up by restricting that?
people sell guns at yard sales and flea markets here.
 
A gunshow purchase from a non-licensed individual is nothing more than a face-to-face purchase.
Click to expand...

This is the truth. The only way to "close" the "gunshow loophole" is to register every firearm to a particular owner.

The real answer to laws banning the transfer of private property at a gun show is to take the private property outside to transfer it.
 
Let's not. And proudly say we didn't.

I don't want or need permission from anybody to sell my property to someone else.

I'm not likely to sell my chainsaw to Bruce Campbell or a guy with a hockey mask on, I won't sell an old kitchen knife to someone with a last name of Bates, and I'm also not likely to sell my pistols or rifles to a guy that cannot answer my own seller's interview candidly.

So I was thinking that maybe the NRA should push for a law that would allow concealed carry permit holders to purchase weapons while bypassing the NICS check.
Click to expand...

"Should" is a dangerous concept. "Should" is usually something said by people that have little to do with the situation that bothers them.

Also, criminals break laws. Vicious shooters break laws by shooting people. The law you're pushing for is not one that "would allow [ccw] holders to purchase weapons while bypassing the NICS check." You're pushing for a law that prohibits everyone else from the same thing. It also puts a burdensome restriction on private sellers. Big difference.

Criminals will pay no more attention to that restriction than any of the other restictions before them.

Now... gun estate investors? Guys who buy 50 guns from some old widow after her husband dies, then get a table at the next gunshow and turn a profit without any discrimination on their buyers?

Maybe have a lower-class temporary FFL certification for them and access to the NICS system. Make it inexpensive and a true government service, with minimal paperwork (yeah, right :rolleyes: ). If it were truly of minimal cost with maximum benefit, I would be okay with it being mandatory for gun show table renters who intend to display and sell more than (spitballing a number here) 20 firearms.
 
Bitmap posted:
This is the truth. The only way to "close" the "gunshow loophole" is to register every firearm to a particular owner.
Click to expand...

The anti's know this. The anti gun politicians likely know this. They want registration. The gun show loophole is just a way to divert the attention away from their desire to have a national gun registry. If you force every private sale at a gun show to go through a licensed dealer, then what is to stop two people, one buyer, one seller who is not a licensed dealer, from agreeing to meet down the street after the gun show to complete the deal? That is what a private face to face sale is. It makes no difference if it happens in a garage or at a rented cow palace. The Gun Show Loophole is nothing more than anti gun rhetoric designed to scare the crap out of people who don't know much about guns or have never been to a gun show. The main objective behind the rhetoric is long term and they want a national registry. Remember, like Al Qaeda, the anti gunners are a very patient bunch. Every minor win is viewed by them to be a major win. Even major losses are viewed as just temporary stumbling blocks in reaching their ultimate objectives. What have they got to lose? We have our rights to lose. We have to fight harder and with a higher sense of urgency. Like they said in Galaxy Quest: "Never give up! Never surrender!"
 
I think that what you are proposing is pretty much unenforcable. At a recent gun show I had a FFL dealer tell me that one of the guns I was looking at was from his private collection and he could sell me that one without a background check or sales taxes. He said the others were in his stock and would require a check. Didn't matter to me as I have a CWP and am exempt from the check but I decided I didn't really trust that dealer.
 
The antis will do they best to screw us over and deprive us of our rights no matter what we do or say.
Why help them?
We need to fight them tooth and nail, not help them.
 
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