Lethal force & Dogs

T

Ton

New member
So, my original question was something along the lines of:

Would I be justified in using lethal force against a dog that was attacking my own dog? After doing a search, the answer I came up with was no, lethal force is not justified in defending your dog, as dogs are considered property. Most of the posters stated that you could be charged with homicide if you chose to do so.

But after thinking about it for a while, I realized that if dogs are indeed considered property, the only charges that could be brought against you would be along the lines of illegal discharge of a firearm & destruction of property. They wouldn't charge you with homicide for shooting somebody's car, or any other piece of property they had. Am I wrong about this?

BTW, I will not use lethal force against anything (including dogs) unless they pose an imminent threat to myself or another human being. I'm not looking to shoot anyone's dog. It's just an aspect of the law that I hadn't considered during my initial search, and can't seem to find a solid answer for. Thanks!

Ton
 
You can't be charged with homicide for killing a dog. A dog is not human. If there were any sort of charge, it would be something along the lines of animal cruelty.

If you COULD be charged with homicide for killing a dog, it would not make sense that you could not use force to protect a dog, since it's life being protected by homicide laws would certainly imply that it's life was worthy of protection, yes?

Protection of animals is not like protection of humans. There is no over-riding nationwide law, so far as I know. The legality of defending your dog against a potentially lethal attack by another dog PROBABLY varies by locality.

My assumption (note it's an assumption) is that in most places you WOULD be allowed to defend your dog with force, including killing the attacking dog.
 
It's really going to depend on local law and discretion. Most cities have laws against discharging firearms, but stopping a dangerous animal is usually a defense.

Usually. Be sure to check local laws.
 
In addition to local animal cruelty statues, check your local fish and game regulations. AFAIK in most states, it is generally lawful to kill an animal that is threatening one's livestock or crops, regardless of other game regulations (i.e. whether the target animal is or isn't in season, and whether the actor has the requisite hunting license, tags, and/or permits); however, there are often MANY conditions that must be satisfied for this to be legal- primarily whether or not your state's definition of livestock includes pets, and how the laws and regulations apply when one is outside of one's own property or property under one's legal control (e.g. a rental or lease).

Additionally, it's imperative to remember that whenever a person's firearm is discharged in anger in a public place, an aggravated assault charge (or its local equivalent) may be filed if there is reasonable cause for another person to believe that the shot was intended to unlawfully threaten them- even if the shot is not actually aimed at that person. Remember that some people are VERY sensitive about what happens to their dogs.

[Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor.]
 
As Tom Servo already mentioned, it would be wise to check your state/local laws about this. Many states will have a law(s) about dangerous animals, and killing of a dog that is actually killing, or about to kill livestock, but it may, or may not mention domesticated animals (pets), so it may be wise to possibly run the idea by a local lawyer there who is competent in that particular area of the law.

Is there a particular dog in your area that is causing a potential problem? If so, you may wish to speak to either the owner, or your local animal control agency. There is statutory law in my state (NC), which covers "dangerous dogs" and imposes certain restrictions on such, which also include strict liability for injuries or property damage inflicted by a "dangerous dog."

eta: carguychris beat me to it while I was typing
 
Last edited:
If it is a 'defense' shooting, it's legal here in Va. More often than not, it comes out that the dog in these shootings have a history with PD and AC.
That said, it really helps to have a witness to the incident. If possible, it's better to just clobber the offending dog with something. YMMV!
 
kind of reminds me of the story about the fellow who was repeatedly meanced by dogs while on his bike. Local law only allowed him to shoot the dogs if they were attacking livestock.

So, he put a wiener pig in the basket, and when the dogs came to kill his little piggy, he returned the favor. Apparently thinning the pack a bit resolved the problem.

Shooting a dog cannot be homicide, unless, (possibly) the dog is a police officer.
 
I should have pointed out that if you have Shepard for instance, and the attacker is a pit bull, you might NOT win a self defense case since it would most likely be considered a dogfight.
A shepard attacking your poodle incident will be easier to defend your use of deadly force.
 
My dad has a farm in WV, and I asked him a very similar question pretaining to his cattle. He was telling me that on his farm, if an animal poses a threat to him, or his property (since he has a blue healer that is a working cattle dog, therefore considered property) in WV you have full authority to shoot someone else's dog, a bear, bobcat, raccoon etc because it is on your land and damaging or posing a threat to you or your property.

This is just by word of mouth from him, but I'm inclined to believe him because he is the President of the Farm Bureau in the area he lives in, so he tends to look into alot of the laws pertaining to farmers.

As others have stated before me, definitely check your state and local laws, because I'm not a lawyer! :)
 
It's definitely dependent on state. Basically, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a dog that was attacking mine, then after shooting the attacking dog I would take the owner to small claims court for my dogs vet bills!

Here if it's on your property causing harm/damage you are within your rights to kill it. I've passed up some shots on coyotes because I felt it was too near the direction of the neighbors places. However, I do have goats and even if it potentially put another human in jeopardy, I am within my rights to take a shot in order to protect my livestock (old west laws still on the books).
 
Dogs

Homicide is the killing of a person, not an animal. The advice to check local laws is spot on.

Friend of mine here in SoCal witnessed a dog attacking a seeing eye dog at a bus stop. The blind gentleman holding the harness was not being attacked, only his dog. My friend used a baseball bat to kill the attacking dog (pitbull).

Responding PD were so grateful that they wanted to give him a letter of appreciation. This was big city PD and not some small rural area.

It may have helped that the attack wasn't just a bite. It was a vicious and brutal attack that was ultimately fatal to the seeing eye dog.

There was also no shortage of cell phone videos showing what happened. In fact, that's all the bystanders did. No one offered any help, they just grabbed their phones. Only one who thought to help was my friend.
 
Thanks for the answers everyone

You confirmed my realization that if killing a dog was indeed a homicide, I would be justified in defending my own dog against such homicide. But seeing as how that's not the case, I'll have to check my local laws.

No particular dog causing a problem. A few weeks ago I was walking my 2 month old Doberman puppy at around 9:30pm, and it must have been a national let-your-dog-run-free night, because within a half mile we were approached by 3 unleashed large breed dogs with no owners in sight. None of the dogs were aggressive, but I was still irritated by the fact that people could be so irresponsible with their pets. I had my LCP in my pocket and I began to wonder if I would have been justified in using lethal force if one of these roaming dogs had decided to attack. As with one of the above posters, my dog wasn't cheap, and I would be very put out if it ended up with dead or seriously injured dog because somebody hadn't secured their pet well enough.

All things considered though, while I love my dog, he's not worth risking my rights or freedom over. In order to keep my life from getting too complicated, I personally would still refrain from using lethal force unless the attacking dog turned on me during my attempt to stop it without shooting it.
 
I no longer hate cats !!!

I have neighbors that feel obligated to share their dogs with me. Many complaints and many fines, have been issued. One owner was even ordered to remove his dog or face a "final" fine of $600.00. That dog was removed but the problem still exists. When the LEO's come calling, neighbors no longer have to guess who turned them in.
Needless to say, I take no pleasure or pride in this. ..... :rolleyes:

Now, in my yard and not my dog, barking at me, the SSS rule may go into effect. ..... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
The cops shoot & kill vicious dogs all the time. However they're threatened personally. Protecting another dog could be a gray area. Trying to break them up could end up with you being seriously injured or even killed.
Bottom line.. If a vicious dog comes on my private property and attacks say a smaller, unable to defend itself dog of mine... It's buzzard bait.
 
This is Ohio's law:

955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.




(A) Subject to divisions (A)(2) and (3) of section 955.261 of the Revised Code, a dog that is chasing or approaching in a menacing fashion or apparent attitude of attack, that attempts to bite or otherwise endanger, or that kills or injures a person or a dog that chases, threatens, harasses, injures, or kills livestock, poultry, other domestic animal, or other animal, that is the property of another person, except a cat or another dog, can be killed at the time of that chasing, threatening, harassment, approaching, attempt, killing, or injury. If, in attempting to kill such a dog, a person wounds it, the person is not liable to prosecution under the penal laws that punish cruelty to animals. Nothing in this section precludes a law enforcement officer from killing a dog that attacks a police dog as defined in section 2921.321 of the Revised Code.

(B) The owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog, unless the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time, was committing or attempting to commit criminal trespass or another criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer, or was committing or attempting to commit a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor against any person, or was teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog on the owner's, keeper's, or harborer's property. Additionally, the owner, keeper, or harborer of a dog is liable in damages for any injury, death, or loss to person or property that is caused by the dog if the injury, death, or loss was caused to the person or property of an individual who, at the time of the injury, death, or loss, was on the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer solely for the purpose of engaging in door-to-door sales or other solicitations regardless of whether the individual was in compliance with any requirement to obtain a permit or license to engage in door-to-door sales or other solicitations established by the political subdivision in which the property of the owner, keeper, or harborer is located, provided that the person was not committing a criminal offense other than a minor misdemeanor or was not teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog.

Effective Date: 07-10-1987; 2008 HB71 09-30-2008
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Our county is larger than the state of Rhode Island. It will be awhile before a deputy gets to the scene. Our county does not have a dog warden or dog pound. The sheriff encourages the killing of attacking dogs. Since we moved here in 1985 i have killed numerous dogs that had attacked people, chased deer and attacked livestock.

Early last year we got new neighbors in the rental house next door. The old lady, her daughter and convicted felon s-i-l brought two vicious pit bulls with them. It soon became obvious the guy was a dope dealer.

The dogs dug under the privacy fence, got into our back yard and tried to attack me. Grabbed my shotgun and told the lady that if the dogs came into my yard again they were dead.

Finally the most vicious of the two dogs went away. It got loose and someone killed it.

Fast forward to just before Thanksgiving when the s-i-l went bonkers and fired eight rounds at his family. The wife returned fire and was disarmed by the perp. Numerous sheriff's deputies and police from two assisting jurisdictions responded. The perp was seen to be pointing a gun at the assisting chief of police of a town near here.

The convicted felon s-i-l was arrested. The next day dope agents were in the back yard dressed in Tyvek with a dope sniffing dog.

Good news is the dope dealer and his family are gone. Who will be our next neighbors?
 
Guess it depends on where you live. Here you have the responsibility to protect your critters.

Also dogs chasing or harassing game animals are free game. As are feral cats.

Dogs passing through my back pasture hamstrung my horse. No law says I have to call the sheriff and wait for them while a pack of dogs is chowing down on my property.

I love dogs, I have 4 of them, but I don't even let them run loose on my own property. I keep them in the fenced in yard. The rest of my property is off limits to even my dogs.
 
TON said:
All things considered though, while I love my dog, he's not worth risking my rights or freedom over. In order to keep my life from getting too complicated, I personally would still refrain from using lethal force unless the attacking dog turned on me during my attempt to stop it without shooting it.
Click to expand...



It is best to know your laws and act accordingly. I would not hesitate to use whatever violence was neccesary against a dog that was attacking my dog but my decision is based on NY law.


Agriculture and Markets Law 121-a
1. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a person, or behaves
in a manner which a reasonable person would believe poses a serious and
unjustified imminent threat of serious physical injury to a person, when
such person is peaceably conducting himself in a place where he may
lawfully be, such person or any other person witnessing the attack or
threatened attack may destroy such dog while so attacking, and no liability
in damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.

2. If any dog shall, without justification, attack a companion animal,
farm animal or domestic animal, or shall behave in a manner which a
reasonable person would believe poses a serious and unjustified imminent
threat of serious physical injury or death to a companion animal, farm
animal or domestic animal, where such animal is in any place where it may
lawfully be, the owner or caretaker of such animal, or any other person
witnessing the attack, may destroy such dog, and no liability in damages or
otherwise shall be incurred on account of such destruction.


While I would prefer not to shoot the attacking animal for hearing and other safety reasons, I would certainly be willing to use extreme force including the gun if need be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top