I was wondering if anyone has ever shot or used "stinger" less-lethal ammo. This stuff is made of plastic 00 buck shot balls (looks like small ping-pong balls) loaded into fiocchi shells (12 ga). I bought some the other day because I've always wanted the ability to deter without killing. Any feedback or experiances with them would be appreciated. I'd by a lot and shoot them myself but there quite expensive and hard to find.
less lethal ammo
- Thread starter johnm312
- Start date
Less lethal stuff is designed for crowd control and subdual of a non-responsive person pursuant to an arrest. It was never designed for self-defense use and is a bad choice for that purpose.
It can work reasonably well on a non-committed person (one who is not intent on offering you immediate bodily harm, or who is attacking with some sort of a weapon), but it only offers limited pain as a deterrent, and that's often not enough.
As a retired cop, I would not depend on it for defensive use.
Denis
It can work reasonably well on a non-committed person (one who is not intent on offering you immediate bodily harm, or who is attacking with some sort of a weapon), but it only offers limited pain as a deterrent, and that's often not enough.
As a retired cop, I would not depend on it for defensive use.
Denis
I'm not worried about the residue the shots will leave in the barrel since they will only be shot in emergency situations. I have real buckshot on the stock incase I need to take kill shots. I just want th option to incapacitate and only kill if I feel there is no other way. Also the load is made of "zytol" I have no idea what this material is, I assumed its sometype of plastic.
Dfariswheel
New member
Do some searches on the gun forums, including this one and you'll get some good info.
The bottom line on "Less lethal" ammo is simply this: Use by citizens for home defense is both suicidal and stupid.
First, less lethal is for use ONLY by the police in situations were they are fully covered and backed up by other police armed with LETHAL ammo, and in situations where they think they can take the risk.
Less lethal ammo FAILS in many or even most cases.
Second, is the legal situation.
Bottom line, the law is very definite: If you fire a gun at someone, it doesn't matter if the load is buckshot or cotton balls.
You have fired a deadly weapon at a human. If the situation is serious enough to warrant firing a weapon, it doesn't matter if that person lives or dies, legally.
What all this comes down to is this.
1. Using "less lethal" ammo is suicidally dangerous for an home owner, due to the high possibility it will fail to stop or deter the bad guy.
2. Firing less lethal ammo at a person IS deadly force according to the law. Attempting to "deter" someone in a situation where you don't think lethal ammo is warranted will see YOU charged with felony crimes.
3. NEVER, EVER, NEVER base or plan your defense on being able to fire more then ONE shot.
In the "real world" you're lucky to get one shot, and that shot had better be an effective one.
Imagine a situation where you've just fired a less lethal round in your living room at 3:00 am, and it FAILS.
Bad things happen in the real world. Your gun jams, the next round fails to fire, the bad guy gets off a lucky shot, you stumble, whatever.
You now have an ANGRY armed intruder in your face, and HE isn't going to be firing a less lethal round to give YOU a break.
To quote famous Border Patrolman Bill Jordon: "Like being just a LITTLE pregnant, there's no such thing as shooting a human being "just a little". If you have to shoot someone, shoot them GOOD".
Less lethal ammo is NOT for use by citizens who aren't backed up by other people with lethal ammo covering them.
Less lethal is is ONLY "less" lethal. It can and will kill, and is legally considered to be no different than a Magnum load of buckshot.
Trying to NOT shoot someone by shooting them with less lethal ammo is legally wrong and can get you charged and sued.
Planning on firing a less lethal round, THEN planning on being able to fire lethal rounds if the first fails, is suicidally foolish.
Trying to "give a break" to a person insane enough or violent enough to invade your very HOME is itself insane.
Anyone invading your home or confronting a person armed with a shotgun is NOT normal.
Is it your intention to put your life and the lives of your family in the hands of an insane, abnormal person?
The bottom line on "Less lethal" ammo is simply this: Use by citizens for home defense is both suicidal and stupid.
First, less lethal is for use ONLY by the police in situations were they are fully covered and backed up by other police armed with LETHAL ammo, and in situations where they think they can take the risk.
Less lethal ammo FAILS in many or even most cases.
Second, is the legal situation.
Bottom line, the law is very definite: If you fire a gun at someone, it doesn't matter if the load is buckshot or cotton balls.
You have fired a deadly weapon at a human. If the situation is serious enough to warrant firing a weapon, it doesn't matter if that person lives or dies, legally.
What all this comes down to is this.
1. Using "less lethal" ammo is suicidally dangerous for an home owner, due to the high possibility it will fail to stop or deter the bad guy.
2. Firing less lethal ammo at a person IS deadly force according to the law. Attempting to "deter" someone in a situation where you don't think lethal ammo is warranted will see YOU charged with felony crimes.
3. NEVER, EVER, NEVER base or plan your defense on being able to fire more then ONE shot.
In the "real world" you're lucky to get one shot, and that shot had better be an effective one.
Imagine a situation where you've just fired a less lethal round in your living room at 3:00 am, and it FAILS.
Bad things happen in the real world. Your gun jams, the next round fails to fire, the bad guy gets off a lucky shot, you stumble, whatever.
You now have an ANGRY armed intruder in your face, and HE isn't going to be firing a less lethal round to give YOU a break.
To quote famous Border Patrolman Bill Jordon: "Like being just a LITTLE pregnant, there's no such thing as shooting a human being "just a little". If you have to shoot someone, shoot them GOOD".
Less lethal ammo is NOT for use by citizens who aren't backed up by other people with lethal ammo covering them.
Less lethal is is ONLY "less" lethal. It can and will kill, and is legally considered to be no different than a Magnum load of buckshot.
Trying to NOT shoot someone by shooting them with less lethal ammo is legally wrong and can get you charged and sued.
Planning on firing a less lethal round, THEN planning on being able to fire lethal rounds if the first fails, is suicidally foolish.
Trying to "give a break" to a person insane enough or violent enough to invade your very HOME is itself insane.
Anyone invading your home or confronting a person armed with a shotgun is NOT normal.
Is it your intention to put your life and the lives of your family in the hands of an insane, abnormal person?
hehe, I can just imagine: "Ooops hang on I forgot I loaded my gun with cotton balls I need to reload it with real buckshot can you hold on a minute..."
*pause in confusion*
BG either blows you away or runs away laughing with your stereo/money/jewlery under his arm or in his bag/coat.
Please don't risk your life and your family's life by using less-than-leathal ammo. The BG will not wait for you to reload and he will have real bullets in his gun. If the situation is dire enough for you to pull the trigger then you must use every means necissary to completely stop the threat.
OneInTheChamber
New member
As Dfaris put it, no good will come from less lethal. It's the leg shot syndrome. Don't be the hero who hauls the dazed bad guy out to the arriving cops. Be the home owner who walks out scares crapless, but alive and wanting that mess that was a BG cleaned off his walls. Consider this, those plastic bb's coming out of your shotgun at 700-800 fps (I'd assume its pretty low cause they don't weigh enough to retain energy) are not going stop anybody. It'll be like getting hit by a frozen paintball. It won't feel good; but if anything it will further motivate him to go after you. Also, many home invaders are druggies who are stoned on God knows what and can take multiple hits before going down. Just watch police videos of guys on PCP taking magazines worth of 9mm before going down.
And we're not tearing you apart for considering the life of the thug; just warining you that you might be endangering your own. You, your family, or anyone else is worth more than a BG.
Chase
And we're not tearing you apart for considering the life of the thug; just warining you that you might be endangering your own. You, your family, or anyone else is worth more than a BG.
Chase
Thanks for all the advise. Sometimes its easy to get cought up in how one hopes a situation pans out and how things really happen. I never could understand why citizens could by lethal rounds for defense but not non-lethal. After considering the points that warrent the use of a shotgun in my home I understand and agree that full force rounds are the right round to choose. I hate the idea of killing a person, but if they put me in the situation that I feel threatened (concered with my life) why should I give them the respect of saving their life. Another thing I recently realized is this possible scenario. Subdue a person non-lethaly, the person (instead of dying) goes to jail. Said person holds a grudge and spends ten years thinking about killing me for putting them in jail. Person is granted parole and assuming I still live in the same place, comes and takes revenge when I least expect it. I know thats pretty far fetched but also realize how insane many people, especially people with a criminal mentality, can be. Anyway, thanks again for the good advise. All of you brought up good points that helped me rethink what a "defense-gun" is and most importantly realize that if I'm ever in a situation that calls for the said guns use, sympathy should not be in my mind.
Blackwater OPS
New member
seems to me 700fps is about the same as airsoft pellets. Why don't you carry one of those things as your "less lethal" option.:barf: