Length of Pull

T

TheKlawMan

Moderator
I am trying to figure out what I want in a new pump 12 and am a little confused on Length of Pull. The three I am looking at measure 14, 14, and 14 1/4" (Remmington 870, Mossberg 500, and Bennelli Nova/Supernova).

I have found a lot of threads talking about how to shorten or lengthen a stock, put harly anybody specifies their preferred LOP or their physical characreristics. I am 5' 8".

Would some of you mind saying how tall you are and your lop?

[I realize there are a lot of other factors involved, but I found an interesting chart indicating how LOPs tend to correlate with height. If it is correct, I should be fine with any one of the three as far as LOP is involved. It is located at http://www.herosarms.com/Selecting.htm#Table Yes, it appears to be based on a mere 17 subjects and individual LOPs are often 1/2" and in some cases more than the slope, but I understand an slightly short LOP is not a problem. Just stay away from too long an LOP.]

BTW, I also measured from the crook of my arm to the first digit of my trigger finger, with the arm bent 90 degrees, and got a measurement of 14 1/4".

So does it look as though I needn't worry about the LOP?

Thanks for your comments and advice.
 
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The "old timers" method of measuring lenght of pull from the curl of your trigger finger to the crook of your arm is a poor method at best. Length of pull is determined not just by height or how long your arm is but also by such factors as neck length, cheek thickness, shoulder thickness, clothing thickness, etc.

I'm no expert, but the way that has worked for me is to shoulder a gun and sight down the barrel like you are going to shoot it. Have another person measure the distance from the thumb knuckle of your grip hand to the bridge of your nose. You need somewhere between an inch and about 1 1/4" distance between the two. If you have more, you can trim the stock and reattach the recoil pad. If you have less, you can add a thicker recoil pad or a spacer.
 
There is a lot more to gun fit than just LOP - there is cast, pitch, drop at heel, drop at comb. When all of these are correct, the gun fits like a glove (and should for best results). Why some folks feel the need to cut their stocks even shorter so they have to "scrunch" up on the stock is beyond my comprehension.

Personally, I am about 6'3" - I like LOP's to range from 14-1/2 to 15-1/4. This all depends on the type of stock. More relaxed pistol grips allow a slightly longer LOP and still fit well, while a more pronounced grip needs to be better tailored to your dimension. An English stock, especially on a gun with double triggers, allows more leeway, as your trigger hand is moving back and forth to get to the other trigger
 
Buying a shotgun is a lot like buying a car if it didn't have an adjustable driver's seat. I'm over six feet and when I buy a new shotgun I just assume I'll have to have the stock custom fit. As oneounceload noted, there's more to stock fit than length of pull.

Stock fitting used to be one of the bread-and-butter services of your local gunsmith (along with drilling for scope mounts). These days some shotguns come with adjustable stocks (and rifles are pre-drilled for scope mounts). I'm lucky, ShockMaster custom stocks is only a few blocks from me. And, the business has passed from father to son, so it won't be aging-out soon as so many others gun related businesses already have.

KlawMan, at five-eight, you are more likely to find OEM stocks that will fit, or be very close to fitting, than those of us who a head taller or shorter. Don't get overly concerned about the actual fit of shot gun, especially if you find one that's a real stand-out except for fit. I know, we're always talking about the importance of a proper fitting shotgun stock; but, the proper fit can be done after you get the gun. Of course this doesn't mean that you shouldn't keep fit in mind. As Doyle mentioned, spacers can add length -- shortening and changing angles are more involved. 870/1100-type (and similar) stocks can have the wood shaved to change the angle slightly; but, with an older Winchester, with a V-joint at the receiver, it can't be done.
 
Doyle, I hear you about measuring from the elbow crook to the finger joint and see how easily it can be fudged, but I felt better when that little chart showed some correlatiion with height.

I am being a bit careful about trying to get a gun to fit off the rack as I am looking at sytnthetic stock models and they are difficult to trim which is why I am also looking at ones for which 13" stocks are available if needed. (I have seen where it is possible to trim up to an inch off of the Remington. http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shotgu...tic-shotgun-stocks-standard-vs-youth-lop.html )

BTW. I do have an old H&R single shot model 1900 and it seems to fit pretty well, but the design of the stock is quite different from modern ones. It has a LOP of 13 1/4".

Thanks for your help Doyle.
 
Hi oneounceload. From what you and others write, I see the importance of numerous factors to achieving a fit but it interesting that with half a foot onn me you prefer an sg with a LOP of 14 1/2 to 15 1/4" and that suggests I may want to stick with the remington or mossbergs as each are 14" LOPs.

I could ask the guys at a local gun shop, but wonder if they are more interested in selling than fitting me with what is best for me.

One thing I noticed was that some weapons seemed to require me to force my head down in order to get a sight picture. That may be a problem with my neck but if is only with certain models I will stay away from them. (I think that was a chinese made stevenson 350 that some feel have a pronounced drop to its stock.)
 
Again, it all depends on all of the factors, including what I am wearing. For a hunting gun being used in cold weather when I have many layers on, a shorter LOP by 1/4 - 1/2 inch fits better than when it is summer and I am in a T-shirt. There are mechanical devices that will allow you to adjust the comb and others for the butt that allow you to adjust LOP, pitch, toe, even cast to some degree.

Height is one thing, but body build is another - take two folks at 5'-8" - one weighting 145 and the other weighing 245 - their stock needs will be quite different from one another even though they share the same height
 
Have you considered the option of having an adjustable butt plate adapter installed on your gun? Then you can try a multitude of stock settings at your leisure. When you get your stock dimension requirements dialed-in then you'll know exactly what to get in your next gun.
 
Happy Hollidays to you Zippy13. I think what you are saying about not worrying too much about the LOP may be on the money. As long as the LOP is in the area of what I supposedly should need, I may look more for the feel and sight picture.

Also, looking at chart I linked to, the one plotting height and fitted LOP, the writer only said that it was slightly better predictor than the length of arm method wich was not very accurate.

Still, between what you and the others have said, I don't believe I should be unduly concerned with LOP as compared to other features and the gerneral overall fit and feel of a weapon.

Thanks.
 
It seems that experienced great minds think alike, since both you, oneounceload and zippy13, proffered adjustable butt plates. I woner how well they work with synthetic stocks. Then again, I may have this wrong but believe something like that may come on the Bennelli Super Nova. I may be thinking of the recoil reducer.

(I wasn't thinking of the tactical looking adustable stock, which is what Bennelli seems to offer.)
 
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If you go with the Remington, they now have a youth stock that you can adjust the LOP from 13 to 14".

I am your same height and weigh 165 lbs. I just bought a 870P, it came at 13" LOP. It is ok, but I ordered a Hogue 12" LOP stock & forend today from Midway, to try out. I should get it Thursday.
 
Redrick, Interesting that your gun came with such a short OEM LOP of 13", but while we are both 5" 8", I have 40 pounds on you. How is it that yours came with a 13" LOP? Is it a Bantam or Youth stock?
 
It just dawned on me why you mentioned body armor. That is kind of the ultimate thick clothing like oneounceload talked about.
 
I'm about 6'1", well nourished, and the shotguns I shoot well have LOPs running from 14" to 16". My water fowling 870 is standard length, the 870 I use mostly for wingshooting during the warmer months is about 16" and my main clays gun, a Beretta O/U, is more than 15".

IMO, drop is more important, for one. We can fudge a little on the length by where we grip the forearm but the distance from the center of the pupil to the zygomatic arch( Cheekbone) is constant and unique to each of us.

So is cast. Getting the eye where it belongs directly behind the barrels is crucial to good shooting.

Don't let it scare you. Good fit pays off in better shooting in greater comfort.

As for length, if you can get two fingers on the comb between your nose and thumb when you're mounting the gun, you're close enough. Another check, mount an empty gun a few times and if you neither have to move the thing way back into your pocket nor have it snag as it rises, it's close enough.

HTH....
 
Thanks Dave McC. I think I am getting this fugured out and what seems complicated is much simpler.

I do have a hundred year old single shot H&R, but it isn't configured anything like a modern gun. Still, its 13 1/2" LOP is plainly to short for me, suggesting that a standard 14" may do me fine as I can easily get a thicker pad.

I think the thing to do is put some trust in the guys at Fowlers, a local gun shop, and see which of three or four weapons (within my budget) they stock they say is the best fit. Maybe I will be better off shopping for a better made used gun.
 
"...a better made used gun".....

Amen. Very few shotguns are ever worn out, most are ruined by neglect and abuse.

Some LGS folks are quite cognizant about fit. Some are absolute idiots. More of the former than latter, fortunately.

In any recent year, the shotguns I shoot have ranged from 870 Expresses to Purdeys, Model 21s etc. Universally, regardless of brand or MSRP, the ones that fit shoot better for me.

Good luck in your search......
 
Personally, I'm 6'5" and around 290 lbs ( and over-fed...to use Dave's analogy ....) ....but for all of my shotguns ( whether its a 12ga or a .410 ) ..... I'm most comfortable with LOP at 14 5/8". Most of my O/U's ( all Browning's like the Citori XS Skeet or XT Trap out of the factory come with 14 3/8" ) ....

My pump guns Browning BPS Hunter models in 12ga and 20ga come out of the factory shorter at 14 1/4" ....

But its easy to adjust them ... add 1/4" to 3/8" by putting on a different recoil pad or a spacer ...on a wood stock gun.

The only synthetic stock I have is a Benelli Super Sport ...and even though they spec the gun at 14 3/8" ...I still find it a little short. I manage with it / but I'd like it longer ....but to lengthen a synthetic stock can be an issue / depending on how the recoil pad mounts to the body of the stock. On the Benelli with the comfort tech system - its a problem - because they have snap in recoil pads / they don't anchor to the stock with screws.

If a gun is real light ....and shorter ...its a bigger issue / than if the gun is at what I consider my optimum weight ( around 8 1/2 lbs ) for a general purpose gun. All of this plays into swing characteristics ... But how the gun fits to your shoulder and face is far more important than 1/8" in LOP ...because if it fits properly in my shoulder and cheek / it will hit where I look ... and plus or minus 1/8" is ok. But plus or minus 1/4" ...is really noticeable ...at least to me.

It just takes time to get it dialed in / figure out what your LOP is ....
 
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