Legality of shipping FFL to FFL to a US post office box

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gyvel

New member
Shipping FFL to FFL to a P.O. box

There seems to be some confusion about the "legality" of sending a firearm dealer to dealer to a U.S. post office box. So far, nobody at ATF can give me a straight answer (big surprise).

Can anyone here shed any light on that subject?
 
I am neither a lawyer nor a federal LEO, so my opinion is just that. If an FFL on the sending end can walk into a post office to send the package off, why would there be any problem with the FFL on the receiving end picking it up in a post office?

It's not surprising that the BATFE can't answer the question, because they don't enforce USPS regulations. The question should be directed to the postal inspectors.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
The question should be directed to the postal inspectors.
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+1.

FWIW postmasters (as opposed to postal inspectors) are "not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms" per DMM 601.12.3. I kid you not. :rolleyes: Look it up.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm
musher said:
I thought you had to ship to the address on the FFL.
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IIRC this is not a hard-and-fast ATF regulation, but rather a "CYA" procedure that some FFL's choose to follow; HOWEVER, I'm NOT sure about this. I'll look for the citation later, or maybe Dogtown Tom will be along before then. ;) [EDIT: Citation subsequently found, re: post #9.]
JimDandy said:
Can one be made to sign for packages at a PO Box?
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Yes. The USPS puts a little card in your PO box instructing you to come to the service counter. I've had to do this before, albeit not for a firearms shipment.
 
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Even places like the UPS store can sign for packages even ones requiring over 21 years of age. They then have you sign to show receipt of the package. My experience is with shipping wine and electronics not guns. I know the UPS Store will not ship a gun but if a FFL had a box there they might accept the package on his behalf (but certainly check in advance). My one experience receiving a gun, I asked for it to be shipped to my UPS box as it required a over 21 signature and I had no prior notice of when it would arrive. Of course they shipped it to my house and it was just left on the front porch. The gun was being shipped back after repair so no FFL was required.
 
carguychris said:
FWIW postmasters are "not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms" per DMM 601.12.3.
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I didn't suggest asking a postmaster, I suggested asking a postal inspector.

Different job title, different person, different department.
 
Citation found...

Page 8 of the March 2006 ATF FFL newsletter:

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2006-03.pdf
Q... Can an FFL ship a firearm to an address that is different from the business premises address identified on the license?

Yes. Neither the GCA nor its implementing regulations contain specific provisions, requiring that an FFL have firearms shipped to their licensed business premises when receiving firearms. To that end, an FFL may lawfully receive firearms at their mailing address, storage location, or other address where the licensee intends to ensure safe and secure receipt of the firearms.

[paragraph omitted]

We encourage that FFLs verify to the best of their ability that the shipping address is a valid location where the licensee is prepared to receive and subsequently possess the firearms. In addition, if an FFL has customers that require frequent delivery of firearms to an address other than their licensed business premises, we recommend that the shipping address be placed on file with ATF’s Federal Firearms Licensing Center (FFLC) as an additional mailing address. It should be noted that any FFL receiving firearms at locations other than their licensed premises must maintain accurate records of acquisition and disposition of firearms.
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(emphasis mine)
 
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I got my 30s sent usps ffl to ffl but some sigs were required. Special handling or some such. Misrepresent, and in the case it gets pinched there may be a problem..
 
gyvel Shipping FFL to FFL to a P.O. box
There seems to be some confusion about the "legality" of sending a firearm dealer to dealer to a U.S. post office box.
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Firearms MAILED to USPS post office box are no problem, but common carriers UPS/FedEx/etc will not deliver to USPS P.O. boxes.



So far, nobody at ATF can give me a straight answer (big surprise).
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There is no ATF regulation that prohibits such delivery, it a policy decision of UPS/FedEx and USPS.




musher I thought you had to ship to the address on the FFL.
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ATF keeps reminding dealers every few years that there is no regulation that says anything of the sort.....but for some it's too much trouble to read the FFL Newsletters.:(



wally626 I know the UPS Store will not ship a gun but if a FFL had a box there they might accept the package on his behalf....
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OP asked about post offices boxes. (entirely different than private mail boxes

My shipping address is a UPS Store, they will happily receive packages from UPS, FedEx and USPS.
 
As a practical matter, if a buyer sends me an FFL, I'd ship a firearm to a PO Box as long as it's on the FFL. I'm not going to ship a firearm to any address that's not on it.

Otherwise what's the point of having the FFL?
 
Today 10:08 AM
natman As a practical matter, if a buyer sends me an FFL, I'd ship a firearm to a PO Box as long as it's on the FFL. I'm not going to ship a firearm to any address that's not on it.
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You ship to the address the receiving dealer tells you to.......and that would be to him. The FFL lists a premises address and a mailing address and they aren't necessarily the same. As noted above an FFL may receive firearms at any address he chooses, even one not shown on the license itself.

Otherwise what's the point of having the FFL?
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The point of an FFL is to engage in the business of dealing in firearms. With only a couple of very narrow exceptions, interstate firearm shipments must be received by an FFL.
 
You ship to the address the receiving dealer tells you to.......and that would be to him. The FFL lists a premises address and a mailing address and they aren't necessarily the same. As noted above an FFL may receive firearms at any address he chooses, even one not shown on the license itself.
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The FFL does indeed list a premises address and a mailing address and it's perfectly OK for them to be different. The ATF does seem to allow shipping elsewhere as long as it's to the FFL holder, but the burden of verification is on the shipper and I'm not going to do it. It may be CYA, but it's my A that's on the line.

As far as I'm concerned the whole purpose of providing a copy of the license is to verify that if I ship there a genuine FFL holder is going to receive it. If you ship to some other address you have no idea where it's going or who is going to get it.
 
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