windy in idaho
Inactive
I'm not up on Florida State law, but isn't a statewide revote unconstitutional, illegal? BTW my 11 year old child had no problem knowing how to use the sample ballot from Florida that we found on the internet.
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legality of revote
- Thread starter windy in idaho
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
I'm pretty certain that its not only illegal according to Florida law, but that it's also illegal under Federal law, except in cases of:
1. fraud
2. the ballots being destroyed before they can be counted.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
1. fraud
2. the ballots being destroyed before they can be counted.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
There is no fair way to fix the Palm Beach problem. If there is a re-election, Al Gore would win. All the Nader voters would switch. It would be massively unfair to hold an election in one county to decide the fate of the nation when those people know the outcome of the election elsewhere.
Also, do you allow only those people who voted to do so? Or do you open the polls to legally registered voters?
No one -- no one -- was denied the right to vote in Palm Beach. You do not have the right to go back and change your vote later -- even if you mistakenly voted wrong.
Also, do you allow only those people who voted to do so? Or do you open the polls to legally registered voters?
No one -- no one -- was denied the right to vote in Palm Beach. You do not have the right to go back and change your vote later -- even if you mistakenly voted wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GRD:
I believe that the law states that if there are problems with a voters ballot, like those 19,000 with 2 pres. picks on them, they are thrown out. Too bad, so sad, bye bye. Thrown out. Screwed up your ballot and handed it in anyway? I'm so sorry, NEXT.
- gabe[/quote]
It hasn't been reported very widely, but Fox News this afternoon said that there were some 430,000 ballots in Palm Beach which were punched correctly. Also, in 1996 there were ~ 15,000 ballots which were tossed because they were double-punched. Seems like a chronic problem.
I believe that the law states that if there are problems with a voters ballot, like those 19,000 with 2 pres. picks on them, they are thrown out. Too bad, so sad, bye bye. Thrown out. Screwed up your ballot and handed it in anyway? I'm so sorry, NEXT.
- gabe[/quote]
It hasn't been reported very widely, but Fox News this afternoon said that there were some 430,000 ballots in Palm Beach which were punched correctly. Also, in 1996 there were ~ 15,000 ballots which were tossed because they were double-punched. Seems like a chronic problem.
MrBigglesworth
New member
This was actually taken issue back in the 70's!!!!
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel110900.shtml
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11/09/00 9:00 a.m.
The Palm Beach Legal Precedent
No cause for Dem squawking.
By Dave Kopel of the Independence Institute
ccording to some Florida Democrats, the particular layout of ballots in Palm Beach was confusing to voters, and resulted in mistaken votes for Buchanan which were actually intended for Gore. The Florida judiciary has already addressed the issue of post-election claims about ballot confusion, and the precedent is unfavorable to those who want the election overturned.
In the September 10, 1974, Republican primary in Pinellas County, several losing candidates brought a post-election suit against county election officials. (Pinellas sits on the Gulf Coast, and includes St. Petersburg.)
At issue was the longest ballot in Pinellas County history. To save space so that every candidate and issue could fit on the voting machine, the election officials had created a ballot on which the list of candidates for some offices appeared on two lines. In a particular race, for example, the first three candidates, listed alphabetically, appeared on one line, and the last two candidates, alphabetically, appeared on the next line.
A lawsuit demanding a new election was filed by candidates who appeared on the lower line and lost. The Florida trial court agreed. But on October 15, 1974, the Second District Court of Appeal unanimously overturned the trial judge, and let the original election stand. (Nelson v. Robinson, 301 So.2d 508, Fla. Ct. App. 2d Dist., 1974.)
The Court of Appeal explained:
Keeping in mind that we are talking about a claim made after an election, and not one which may have been enforceable before, if a candidate appears on the ballot in such a position that he can be found by the voters upon a responsible study of the ballot, then such voters have been afforded a full, free and open opportunity to make their choice for or against that particular candidate; and the candidate himself has no constitutional right to a particular spot on the ballot which might make the voters' choice easier. His constitutional rights in the matter end when his name is placed on the ballot. Thereafter, the right is in the voters to have a fair and reasonable opportunity to find it; and as to this, it has been observed that the constitution intended that a voter search for the name of the candidate of his choice and to express his of the candidate of his choice without regard to others on the ballot. Furthermore, it assumes his ability to read and his intelligence to indicate his choice with the degree of care commensurate with the solemnity of the occasion.
The Court of Appeal also cited a U.S. Supreme Court case in which the high Court explicitly and unanimously affirmed a Pennsylvania federal court which had ruled that an unfavorable location on the ballot was not a form of unconstitutional discrimination against a candidate. (Gilhool v. Chairman & Com'rs., Philadelphia Co. Bd. of Elec., 306 F.Supp. 1202 (E.D.Pa.1969), aff'd 397 U.S. 147 (1970).)
In Palm Beach this year, the ballot form was approved beforehand by Democratic Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore. This fact relates directly to the Florida Court of Appeal's point that "it has often been held that one who does not avail himself of the opportunity to object to irregularities in the ballot prior to the election may not object to them after."
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel110900.shtml
------------------
11/09/00 9:00 a.m.
The Palm Beach Legal Precedent
No cause for Dem squawking.
By Dave Kopel of the Independence Institute
ccording to some Florida Democrats, the particular layout of ballots in Palm Beach was confusing to voters, and resulted in mistaken votes for Buchanan which were actually intended for Gore. The Florida judiciary has already addressed the issue of post-election claims about ballot confusion, and the precedent is unfavorable to those who want the election overturned.
In the September 10, 1974, Republican primary in Pinellas County, several losing candidates brought a post-election suit against county election officials. (Pinellas sits on the Gulf Coast, and includes St. Petersburg.)
At issue was the longest ballot in Pinellas County history. To save space so that every candidate and issue could fit on the voting machine, the election officials had created a ballot on which the list of candidates for some offices appeared on two lines. In a particular race, for example, the first three candidates, listed alphabetically, appeared on one line, and the last two candidates, alphabetically, appeared on the next line.
A lawsuit demanding a new election was filed by candidates who appeared on the lower line and lost. The Florida trial court agreed. But on October 15, 1974, the Second District Court of Appeal unanimously overturned the trial judge, and let the original election stand. (Nelson v. Robinson, 301 So.2d 508, Fla. Ct. App. 2d Dist., 1974.)
The Court of Appeal explained:
Keeping in mind that we are talking about a claim made after an election, and not one which may have been enforceable before, if a candidate appears on the ballot in such a position that he can be found by the voters upon a responsible study of the ballot, then such voters have been afforded a full, free and open opportunity to make their choice for or against that particular candidate; and the candidate himself has no constitutional right to a particular spot on the ballot which might make the voters' choice easier. His constitutional rights in the matter end when his name is placed on the ballot. Thereafter, the right is in the voters to have a fair and reasonable opportunity to find it; and as to this, it has been observed that the constitution intended that a voter search for the name of the candidate of his choice and to express his of the candidate of his choice without regard to others on the ballot. Furthermore, it assumes his ability to read and his intelligence to indicate his choice with the degree of care commensurate with the solemnity of the occasion.
The Court of Appeal also cited a U.S. Supreme Court case in which the high Court explicitly and unanimously affirmed a Pennsylvania federal court which had ruled that an unfavorable location on the ballot was not a form of unconstitutional discrimination against a candidate. (Gilhool v. Chairman & Com'rs., Philadelphia Co. Bd. of Elec., 306 F.Supp. 1202 (E.D.Pa.1969), aff'd 397 U.S. 147 (1970).)
In Palm Beach this year, the ballot form was approved beforehand by Democratic Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore. This fact relates directly to the Florida Court of Appeal's point that "it has often been held that one who does not avail himself of the opportunity to object to irregularities in the ballot prior to the election may not object to them after."
I just saw an interview on CNN with several of the voters from that county. They all (every person in that county that was registered to vote) received sample ballots up to 10 days before the election along with instructions for it's use. Stupidity is not admissible in court.
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"Charlton Heston is my President"
Danny45
NRA, NAHC, Buckmasters
[This message has been edited by Danny45 (edited November 10, 2000).]
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"Charlton Heston is my President"
Danny45
NRA, NAHC, Buckmasters
[This message has been edited by Danny45 (edited November 10, 2000).]