Legality of Garage Guns

G

GunMaverick

New member
Hi all,

Another question from your ol' buddy GunMaverick... Are garage guns legal? Can I build my own firearm without a lisence? Can it be automatic? This is another aspect of firearms I am not well versed in, I only put it in the general hand gun forum because I couldn't find another place for it. Apologies if I miss placed this thread. Any insight to the legality of garage guns would be helpful.

GunMaverick
 
Yes, There's a whole market of 80% lowers and lots of info available surrounding them. Starting from scratch would be basically the same as starting with a 80% receiver.

What do you mean by automatic? If you mean full auto there's no way you're going to be able to do that without jumping through many legal hoops and getting a BATFE license to manufacture such items.
 
The fact that people have created guns from plastic with printers would support that a person can legally create a firearm from scratch literally millions of "kit" guns exist in black powder and cartridge arms. Any person who can legally own a firearm can make one with no license, or assemble a kit. To create or alter any firearm to a restricted model will require the proper licenses, or it is a federal crime.

In the past, there were conversion kits available for certain weapons that caused all sorts of problems, and one of the steps taken was to order a change in the design to prevent the kits from working.

Keep in mind, the part that has the serial number, if there is only one, is considered to be "the gun". Everything else is just an accessory. Usually that is the receiver, with the firing mechanisms. A child or felon can possess any parts except that that serial numbered really receiver. Possession of that receiver, even if it's totally stripped invokes legal questions.
 
Home-made firearms are legal ... unless they are not.

Under Federal law, anyone who is not a prohibited person can legally fabricate his/her own firearm, as long as it's a legal firearm. That means no full-auto, no short barreled rifles, no "AOWs" ("any other weapon").

There may be state laws that are more strict. In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook School shooting, several states enacted "assault weapons" bans. In those states, as I understand it, although you can legally manufacture your own six-shooter, semi-auto handgun, or bolt action rifle, you can't fabricate your own "assault-type" firearm if the state doesn't allow people to buy one from an FFL.
 
^^^^ This.
briandg said:
Keep in mind, the part that has the serial number, if there is only one, is considered to be "the gun".
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Only a federally licensed importer or manufacturer is required by federal law to apply a unique serial number. A home gunsmith is not.

Per 18 USC § 923(i):
Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers shall identify by means of a serial number engraved or cast on the receiver or frame of the weapon, in such manner as the Attorney General shall by regulations prescribe, each firearm imported or manufactured by such importer or manufacturer.
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Despite this, IIRC there are some grey areas in the law that can potentially jump up and bite the builder if a non-serialized homemade firearm is subsequently transferred to someone else, although I don't recall the details.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.
 
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I didn't say that he had to have a serial number or any individual number, just mentioned it to point out that other than the receiver or other part legally defined as "the firearm" is simply a part and he can pretty much do anything, only the receiver is controlled by law. For example, a juvenile can legally purchase or own barrels, magazines (I think) firing pins, sights, anything that isn't considered a gun. Not sure if that's going to be a concern, but for example, it c certainly leaves a gray area if a gunsmith shortens a barrel if he never touches the firearm. There are probably areas regulations that definitively cover that .

I wish to God that I could have cited some regulations to my dad so that I could have gotten out of shaping the butt plate and other parts of his muzzle loaders with worn out files and sandpaper.
 
"Any person who can legally own a firearm can make one with no license,"

Not quite. Automatic weapons owned before closure of the register are legally owned and can be transferred but new ones cannot legally be manufactured except by licensed manufacturers for LE/military use.

Jim
 
People have been assembling their own legal firearms for eons. Semi-autos and every other non-Class 3 action are fine.
"...people have created guns from plastic with printers..." No, they haven't. You can't 'print' a barrel or receiver that will withstand the pressures of ANY real firearm.
 
Well, that's true, but try telling that to the average person, even gun owners.talk about barrels, springs, firing pins, but there have been quite a few people who have put together crap toys.

There is a company that printed a laser sintered steel 1911 that created a sensation. As you said, come on. They made a frame and slide, hand fitted it, printed a few other parts, then used factory jade springs, barrel, and some other bits.

I don't believe that there will ever be with practical, or even seriously successful printed gun of any sort. Frankly, just the fact that it was made with a quarter million worth of machinery made it a joke.
 
As I understand it as long as the firearm is not intended for sale then it would be legal to build your own semi-auto firearm at home. I believe the for sale is the key here. You could make one for yourself or as a gift but could not accept any payment for it. To be on the safe side instead of building one for a friend as a gift I would have them over and build it together.
 
T. O'Heir said:
You can't 'print' a barrel or receiver that will withstand the pressures of ANY real firearm.
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But there have been 3D-printed, plastic AR-15s. I don't recall if the barrel itself was plastic (almost certainly not, I'd say), but there are Youtube videos of the things being fired. The one I recall seeing didn't last for very many rounds, but it fired.

Not the one I recall, but I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsCAWh1Jn4c
 
Can I build my own firearm without a lisence? Can it be automatic?
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Well, you'll know for sure, after the court case verdict is read...:rolleyes:

Here's what you're looking at.. prior to the AR becoming everyone's DIY project, there were (and still are) a small number of custom rifle builders in the country. And I don't mean guys taking an action and building a custom sporter from a milsurp, I mean guys who built it all from scratch. High end bolt guns, generally.

These guys were building maybe a dozen rifles a year, usually less, and because of the low numbers made, were not required to have the Fed license to manufacture firearms, like the big arms makers. This was what the law had to deal with for many, many years.

The key is the govt's interpretation of "engaged in the business" of dealing in firearms. Very small numbers of guns made, and sold were traditionally considered exempt, not worth prosecuting. That was then.

A future administration can change their minds, anytime they want.

Making a gun, for your own personal use is, as far as I know legal without any license or permits from the Federal govt. Check you state and local laws, which may differ.

The gun has to be of a type that is legal. SO, no full auto (or other NFA regulated weapons without prior govt approval).

There are some grey areas, about selling guns you made yourself, when you get tired of them, etc., because you are then dealing with business & commerce laws.

Also remember that an honest difference of opinion with the Govt can land you in court. Also the govt doesn't have to worry about expenses taking you to court. Their costs come out of all our pockets. Your expenses come out of your pocket alone.

Might just be urban legends, I can't give you any cites, but I have heard of two cases where the govt took people to court over "Thompson submachine guns" they made at home.

The first one was a complete faithful repro tommy gun, correct in all dimensions, including barrel chamber and rifling. It was capable of chambering live ammunition. And, except for springs, was made entirely of wood.

The second was a faithful reproduction of a Tommygun, all parts workable, but scaled down. The gun was about 4 or 5 inches long. A scale model, in steel and wood.

Govt said they were illegal (unregistered & untaxed) machineguns.

They lost both cases. (no conviction) but it was still expensive for the owners.

Any guesses why the Govt lost??? :D
 
He's quite right that there are very serious worries if the federal government government gets involved, with bad intentions. I don't for even a moment believe that you will run into trouble, unless you really blow off the law to the point that you get their attention, or if you are the kind that just draws attention. Don't do anything that even looks illegal.


I hope that I can say this without all hell breaking loose, but the ruby ridge incident occurred because a person made a small, but serious mistake, and he was already on the government's list of dangerous people.

People, don't drag the topic onto arguing about this, I only brought it up to point out that it doesn't have to be a big issue, even a small violation can result in serious consequences.
 
Garage guns are legal if built for your own use, with the following caveats:
1. The gun must be legal under both your state's laws and federal law. That means that you cannot build any thing that runs afoul of the NFA, including fully automatic weapons, short barreled rifles or shotguns, silencer or destructive devises.
2. You cannot manufacture for resale. You must manufacture for your own use.
3. You can sell limited quantities of homemade weapons without being deemed a manufacturer subject to licensure, however, you do have to engrave, attach or stamp a "unique" identifying number on the receiver in letters at least 3/16 high and .03 inches deep. I don't believe there is a requirement that the serial number be reported to the ATF, but not sure about that.
 
As far as NFA firearms go you can make them for personal use without a license as long as you obtain an approved tax stamp application first. The tax stamp is not a license. I make silencers as a hobby this way.
 
An option that's available to you is to Google "zip gun" and see what they say about the legalities of building your own gun in the garage. From what I understand, back in the early 1900's to the 1950's, a lot of people made their own guns out of pieces of wood for a frame, galvanized water pipe for a barrel, springs and just about anything they wanted to try for a firing pin. Sometimes they didn't even have a trigger and it fired by pulling back on the spring loaded firing pin and letting it go! These were single shot pistols that usually was only good for close quarter shooting, as there wasn't any kind of rifling in the barrel either. Not very ideal guns to try to use and some even blew up in the person's face the first time he tried shooting it. Not suggested by me for you to build a gun like this, but you can find out some legal information on this by Googling it, then build one of better reliability, more modern methods and parts.

I myself was thinking about buying a part here and a part there from various vendors to build my own(who ever had the best price on a quality part of the type of rifle I wanted to build)and put my own rifle together too. There is quite a bit of lapping and matching one part up with the other part(such as lapping the receiver and bolt to the bolt face and head spacing) that is required to put a gun together this way from scratch. Good luck with your project. It sounds like it might be a fun project.
 
Rick- We aren't talking about "zip guns" here.
We are talking about real, rifled firearms.
Zip guns have unrifled barrels, making them illegal weapons- unless federally registered.
 
62coltnavy said:
You can sell limited quantities of homemade weapons without being deemed a manufacturer subject to licensure, however, you do have to engrave, attach or stamp a "unique" identifying number on the receiver in letters at least 3/16 high and .03 inches deep.
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The serial numbering requirements you've summarized are from 27 CFR § 478.92, which—as with 18 USC § 923(i) that I quoted earlier—only applies directly to licensed manufacturers and licensed importers. [EDIT: With the caveat that the lettering height requirement is actually 1/16" rather than 3/16". :)]

AFAIK the commonly parroted advice for homebuilders to apply their name and a serial number is NOT a cut-and-dried legal requirement; it's better characterized as a best practice to avoid ADDITIONAL charges or penalties for violating the various federal serial-number requirements [18 USC § 923(i), 27 CFR § 478.92, and 18 USC § 923(k)] if the builder is LATER found to have been "engaged in the business". CYA IOW, YMMV. :)
Rick W. said:
An option that's available to you is to Google "zip gun" and see what they say about the legalities of building your own gun in the garage. From what I understand, back in the early 1900's to the 1950's, a lot of people made their own guns out of pieces of wood for a frame, galvanized water pipe for a barrel, springs and just about anything they wanted to try for a firing pin... These were single shot pistols that usually was only good for close quarter shooting, as there wasn't any kind of rifling in the barrel either.
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I believe you would find that most such firearms meet the NFA definition of Any Other Weapon. The fact that the NFA may not have always been strictly enforced in the past is of little value when the ATF comes knocking today. :eek: Additionally, AFAIK "zip guns" are widely regulated or prohibited outright under state law.
 
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Zip guns have unrifled barrels, making them illegal weapons- unless federally registered.
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(BUZZER SOUND)

No, sorry, the lack of a rifled barrel alone does not make them illegal. (pssst...SHOTGUNS! :rolleyes:)

There has to be something ELSE beyond a smooth bore to make them illegal.

Most zip guns fall below the legal size limits for rifles or shotguns, making them handguns, and smoothbore handguns are an NFA item.
 
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